Patrick Reed vs. the Rules of Golf

[saevel25]

Players express frustration with Patrick Reed rules controversy

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Patrick Reed won the Farmers Insurance Open on Sunday, but his controversial embedded-ball free relief stirred up plenty of reactions from fellow pros.

I find Rory's comments at the end is how I feel about it. 

Quote

“I’ve never tried to get away with anything out here,” he said. “I think I said at the time, you know, in golf you’d rather be on the wrong side of the rules than the right side of them — because that’s just what our game’s about. Our game is about integrity and it’s about doing the right thing. I always try to do the right thing and hopefully people see that. I feel like I have a reputation of that. Yeah, look, yesterday was one of those things that I guess Patrick and I both went on the information that we had and made those determinations. I guess people can jump to conclusions, but at the same time we were I guess well within our rights to do what we did. And yeah, I mean, again — I don’t know. My ball was certainly plugged on 18, Patrick felt his ball was plugged on 10 and we proceeded on from there.”

The other players feel like they need to call in RO all the time and they kind of go at Reed for not doing so. Like it's against the rules or shows bad form not to.  I feel like they are getting use to the luxury of having RO at every tournament, and it distorting that Reed was 100% in his right to make that call and should not be look down upon for doing so. 

[StuM]

28 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Many many players, and ex-players, have very limited knowledge of the rules.  For them, the only safe thing to do is call an official whenever there's any question.  

True, but in this case she was being asked to comment and the implication was she is an expert.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, StuM said:

True, but in this case she was being asked to comment and the implication was she is an expert.

If you don't have an complete understanding of the rules, then you can't have a good opinion on the implication of it. Right of the start, she should have said it was a non-issue with regards to the rules if she knew the rules. 

[DaveP043]

12 minutes ago, StuM said:

True, but in this case she was being asked to comment and the implication was she is an expert.

She wouldn't sound like much of an expert if she said "I never bothered to really learn the rules, so I just called for an official before I ever touched a ball."  And honestly, the best way to get in real trouble is to pick up your ball without understanding exactly what you're doing.  But PR and Rors both knew the rule, and acted appropriately.

[Vinsk]

7 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Players express frustration with Patrick Reed rules controversy

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Patrick Reed won the Farmers Insurance Open on Sunday, but his controversial...

I find Rory's comments at the end is how I feel about it. 

The other players feel like they need to call in RO all the time and they kind of go at Reed for not doing so. Like it's against the rules or shows bad form not to.  I feel like they are getting use to the luxury of having RO at every tournament, and it distorting that Reed was 100% in his right to make that call and should not be look down upon for doing so. 

After reading through this thread then seeing the video posted of the incident I can’t understand why this  was ever an issue at all. I didn’t see or hear anything unusual at all. I admit I wasn’t aware that a player can claim his own ball embedded and thus mark it. Once that was clarified the entire incident was fine. Why did this get so much action?

[StuM]

9 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

She wouldn't sound like much of an expert if she said "I never bothered to really learn the rules, so I just called for an official before I ever touched a ball."  And honestly, the best way to get in real trouble is to pick up your ball without understanding exactly what you're doing.  But PR and Rors both knew the rule, and acted appropriately.

What she should have done is researched the rule before she commented on Sunday.  

[woodzie264]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

Why did this get so much action?

In the event that was not a rhetorical question, this:

15 hours ago, woodzie264 said:

The commentators have all admitted this afternoon that the reason Rory’s actions were not under the microscope is simply a matter of character reputation. Both had a ball bounce and were reported embedded upon finding them at final resting place, but yet it’s Reed under scrutiny. While I didn’t see where Reed did anything wrong with the information he had at that time, our history does affect our present and he’s “earned” the microscope he’s found himself under. But again, objectively he followed the rules, end of story IMO.

^^^^^**Because Reed is Reed and he picked up his ball and moved it and then called the RO over after moving it. To the commentators not familiar with the rules, this was suspect as they would’ve not moved the ball without having the RO there first, coupled with the fact many found it incredulous that a bounced ball would have become embedded to high rough; both of these things married to the Reed’s reputation created a perfect storm for controversy whereas no one would question Rory’s. Again, Reed is just suffering the consequences of previous actions with the scrutiny of this one. But you’re right, it should not have been a big deal. 

[DaveP043]

9 minutes ago, woodzie264 said:

 This:

^^^^^**Because Reed is Reed and he picked up his ball and moved it and then called the RO over after moving it. To the commentators not familiar with the rules, this was suspect as they would’ve not moved the ball without having the RO there first, coupled with the fact many found it incredulous that a bounced ball would have become embedded to high rough; both of these things married to the Reed’s reputation created a perfect storm for controversy whereas no one would question Rory’s. Again, Reed is just suffering the consequences of previous actions with the scrutiny of this one. But you’re right, it should not have been a big deal. 

The change in Rules in 2019 may have contributed.  I've been looking at the old Rules.  I remembered that the embedded ball relief was only available for balls in a "closely mown area", so taking relief in the rough is relatively new.  Also, the old rules don't have a specific provision allowing the ball to be lifted to determine if its embedded.  That makes sense, its easier to see when the ball is in the fairway, but in the rough its nearly impossible to tell if the ball is embedded without lifting it.  So a combination, relief is now available where none was  previously, and now you can lift the ball to determine if its embedded.  Last is the long-standing preference for players to have a Rules Official present before they do much of anything, its still pretty rare to see a player touching a ball without an Official watching.  Its not required by the Rules, but it seems that most players still do it this way.  Couple that with Patrick Reed's reputation, and its a problem.  They (the big amorphous "they") don't want him to just follow the rules, they want him to do things exactly the way "they" have always done them.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I remembered that the embedded ball relief was only available for balls in a "closely mown area", so taking relief in the rough is relatively new.

The PGA Tour always enacted the Local Rule extending relief through the green. It was the R&A who didn’t like that, maybe because they almost never had embedded balls on links courses.

So they’ve been doing this on the PGA Tour for decades.

[woodzie264]

40 minutes ago, StuM said:

What she should have done is researched the rule before she commented on Sunday.  

That would’ve made too much sense

[DaveP043]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

The PGA Tour always enacted the Local Rule extending relief through the green. It was the R&A who didn’t like that, maybe because they almost never had embedded balls on links courses.

So they’ve been doing this on the PGA Tour for decades.

Thanks, I didn't realize that.  As I read the old Rule, including the model Local Rule, there was no provision for lifting the ball to determine whether its embedded.  How did they handle balls in the rough, where you really can't see the bottom of the ball?

[snow bird]

13 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

The deep hole the ball jumped out of was only about a foot away.  

 

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Yes.

Plus what Dave just said.

 I agree Dottie is wrong and it is clear that there is an agenda here to get Patrick Reed. Similar to the way Tom Brady was having his character assassinated by Roger Goodel and others who have grown a distain of watching the GOAT school the rest of the NFL. Hang in there Patrick you beat the rest of the field by 5 strokes and did what the rules say. Also he asked an official observer if the ball had bounced and was told it didn't. He did the same as Rory plus he called over a rules official to substantiate the ruling. Rory didn't, nor did he have to and neither did Patrick but it seems he is being punished. I see  Asshole Chamblee has gotten back onto his bully pulpit. He has found a new person to demonize since he has worn out the Tiger tirades he issued to a point of nauseam. 

[boogielicious]

13 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

So why are so many people saying there's a controversy???  Can't simply be because he tossed his ball aside.  There has to be more.  This is a serious question.

Because they do not like Patrick Reed. Plain and simple but sad as well. 

[snow bird]

2 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Because they do not like Patrick Reed. Plain and simple but sad as well. 

As you get higher up into the golf world I suspect you find snobby people who do not like to see rough around the edges players like Reed come along and start kicking the best of the world's ass. Tiger woods was not the first top level golfer to have a reputation of sleeping around but because he is a person of color in a very white sport he was demonized by the hypocrites who have a bull horn in their hands. 

 

[boogielicious]

15 minutes ago, snow bird said:

As you get higher up into the golf world I suspect you find snobby people who do not like to see rough around the edges players like Reed come along and start kicking the best of the world's ass. Tiger woods was not the first top level golfer to have a reputation of sleeping around but because he is a person of color in a very white sport he was demonized by the hypocrites who have a bull horn in their hands. 

 

It’s easy to pick favorites in sports. It’s also fairly easy to pick a nemesis and vilify them. In this case, those that dislike Reed see a nefarious plot with his play all the time. We need to be more objective in this situation and see his play was within the rules.

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

We need to be more objective in this situation and see his play was within the rules.

The other thing, we can almost always learn from these situations.  Its one thing to read the rules, but I remember things better when I learn from an actual situation like this.  Its a great time to go read the exact wording of the Rule(s) in question and see how it applies to the actual event.  This is a big failing I see from most of the commentators.  They're not focused on the specific Rule, and whether Reed followed it, they're wailing because he didn't do the exact same thing THEY would have done when they were playing.

[jmanbooyaa]

That appears to be correct @DaveP043 and their distain for Reed. 

[boogielicious]

10 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The other thing, we can almost always learn from these situations.  Its one thing to read the rules, but I remember things better when I learn from an actual situation like this.  Its a great time to go read the exact wording of the Rule(s) in question and see how it applies to the actual event.  This is a big failing I see from most of the commentators.  They're not focused on the specific Rule, and whether Reed followed it, they're wailing because he didn't do the exact same thing THEY would have done when they were playing.

Yesterday, there was another rules situation on the green where the ball moved after Reed removed his coin. The announcers didn’t know the correct rule. Someone corrected them on air. It’s your freaking job! Learn the rules!