How to change face and path independently?

[ncates00]

Greetings everyone,

Been a while.  Just wondering your thoughts on an issue I've had.  I have what seems to be a very rightward path.  I own a Foresight GC2 (but without the HMT unfortunately... the GC2 alone was a pricey toy) and I consistently start the ball well right of the target line with draw spin.  Often on tight courses, it is difficult for me to play those courses due to my excessive right to left curvature.  I seemingly cannot control face and path independently.  I can move path, but I cannot change my shut to the path FACE.  I have experimented with ways to combat this:

1. I have tried to just play my push draw.  On open courses, I hit high (over 30 yard peak height) push draws all day.  I do worry about over turn or no turn at times.  It is very frustrating to get to the 18th tee and hook a ball OB left or block a ball into the weeds.

2. I have played my push by aiming way left and tried limiting the draw.  Sort of like Trevino- aim left, swing right, and walk straight-ish.  When the draw is minimal, I get a really high (close to 40 yards peak height) block down the middle.  On the gc2, my starting line is roughly 9-12* right with less than 1k draw spin.  Driver is even more to the right with an upward angle of attack and low spin.  This is much better than option 1 I've found.

3. I've tried to swing left and hold off the face.  This just moves everything to the left more.  My start line can get down to 1-3* right, but the draw spin remains.  The ball starts more on line, but it hooks even more.  The ball flight is much lower too (less than 30 yard peak height).  

 

I'll try to post video and gc2 numbers later.  Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[mchepp]

Well, 2 thoughts. Since you are looking for thoughts. 

1. Post the number from the GC2 so we can see more what you are talking about. There are experts here who when the see can help to decipher some suggestions.

2. This one is my recommendation, post your swing in a swing thread. Best way to get good advice around here.

[iacas]

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

[ncates00]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/forum/13-member-swings/

Ok, thanks!  I'll post later.  Thanks for your help.  I suppose in the meantime, how do you teach students to control face and path independently?  Path seems to be much easier to control.  I cannot keep the face open to my path to save my life.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Ok, thanks!  I'll post later.  Thanks for your help.  I suppose in the meantime, how do you teach students to control face and path independently?  Path seems to be much easier to control.  I cannot keep the face open to my path to save my life.

Depends on their swing. Post yours.

The face tends to go along with the path to some extent. Not 1:1.

[DaveP043]

4 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Ok, thanks!  I'll post later.  Thanks for your help.  I suppose in the meantime, how do you teach students to control face and path independently?  Path seems to be much easier to control.  I cannot keep the face open to my path to save my life.

This is only an opinion from a non-teacher, but it seems to me that any change to path would almost certainly cause some change to face, and vice-versa.  What I'd expect a good instructor to do is to make the more "urgent" change first, and the refine the movement to correct the remaining issue later.

[nevets88]

Generally, if I understand it correctly, the harder you shallow, the tendency is to open the face. It is not easy for most to shallow AND close, at least for people who've been slicing for a long time.

And I'm going to guess if you try and attack the face, closing the face tends to make you steep.

Maybe that's why the transition is so hard, you're putting two opposing feelings into one movement. 

This is why I'm generally dubious of one move solving your swing problems. There's usually one major swing flaw, but you'll probably need to fix more than one thing.

[GolfLug]

I don't know how one not related to the other. I guess one would think just strengthen or weaken the grip for independent face control - albeit, I still am not sure how can it not affect path at least a little. 

 

 

[billchao]

11 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I don't know how one not related to the other. I guess one would think just strengthen or weaken the grip for independent face control - albeit, I still am not sure how can it not affect path at least a little. 

Strengthening or weakening your grip will affect your path. It affects how you load and unload and hinge and stuff.

The only way I can think to affect face without path is to rotate the club in your hands the same way you would if you were trying to hit an intentional slice or hook. Even then I think the direction the club is pointing will affect your swing somewhat.

[Groucho Valentine]

@ncates00 the answer is simple...

[GolfLug]

43 minutes ago, billchao said:

Strengthening or weakening your grip will affect your path. It affects how you load and unload and hinge and stuff.

The only way I can think to affect face without path is to rotate the club in your hands the same way you would if you were trying to hit an intentional slice or hook. Even then I think the direction the club is pointing will affect your swing somewhat.

Or pre-rotate it at address.. . 

 

12 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

@ncates00 the answer is simple...

It's a reasonable question. Trial and error is fun and inevitable I guess, but there's too much good info available to not to want understand before jumping into it. 

[billchao]

8 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Or pre-rotate it at address.. 

Yea that's what I'm saying.

How else would you hit a hook? Roll the hands over at impact? 

[Buckeyebowman]

One thing I will ask is have you looked at where your clubface is pointing at address? When the new "golf dome" opened in our area I got an instant lesson. I thought I was addressing the ball with the face square to the target line, but as it turns out I was not! The mat I was hitting on had very subtle "vertical seams" in it, so I set up to have my clubface parallel to those seams, and thus perpendicular to the target line. As it turned out, my clubface was anything but that. It was open to the target line! 

When I turned the club to get it parallel to the seams, it appeared closed to me. But I hit a couple of shots and they flew straight and true! This is how little weird things can creep into your setup and mess you up.

I have a friend who, when putting, sets up with his feet and clubface looking well left of the hole! He then proceeds to "shove" the putt at the hole. I've shown him this many times, and he can't seem to get past it.