Shot Clock on the PGA Tour

[Vinsk]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

But after just one round of the Austrian Open/aka Shot Clock Masters, the results speak volumes: as much as 55 minutes faster than the typical European Tour three-ball, rounds 19 minutes faster than the allotted time and no apparent decline in the quality of play.

I’d say that’s definitely significant. Give it a go here and let’s see how it flies.

[fishgolf]

29 minutes ago, iacas said:

But after just one round of the Austrian Open/aka Shot Clock Masters, the results speak volumes: as much as 55 minutes faster than the typical European Tour three-ball, rounds 19 minutes faster than the allotted time and no apparent decline in the quality of play.

Does it need to be play this fast?  Golf unlike many sports is not a race involving fastest time.  I see the addition of a shot timer fraught with issues and I am concerned that we add a dimension to a sport who has lived for centuries without it (a shot clock) being part of the game.  The tours already have rules they can and should enforce regarding slow play.  ditchtheshotclock#

[Vinsk]

11 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

Does it need to be play this fast?  Golf unlike many sports is not a race involving fastest time.  I see the addition of a shot timer fraught with issues and I am concerned that we add a dimension to a sport who has lived for centuries without it (a shot clock) being part of the game.  The tours already have rules they can and should enforce regarding slow play.  ditchtheshotclock#

Did you watch Cantlay last week?

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

Does it need to be play this fast?  Golf unlike many sports is not a race involving fastest time.  I see the addition of a shot timer fraught with issues and I am concerned that we add a dimension to a sport who has lived for centuries without it (a shot clock) being part of the game.  The tours already have rules they can and should enforce regarding slow play.  ditchtheshotclock#

Yes, it does.

70% of the players said the European Tour has a pace of play problem. And they actually penalize players on that Tour.

You’re on the wrong side of this one man.

[fishgolf]

21 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Did you watch Cantlay last week?

No, but did hear some commentary about him.  Sure, there are some outliers but they can be dealt with using existing rules.  Has he or the groups he's on been put on the clock more frequently than most?  If is routine is really that slow to overall play, one would think he'd be getting penalized for it.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

No, but did hear some commentary about him.  Sure, there are some outliers but they can be dealt with using existing rules.  Has he or the groups he's on been put on the clock more frequently than most?  If is routine is really that slow to overall play, one would think he'd be getting penalized for it.

It took the final groups 5:40 to play the 18 holes on Sunday at The Memorial.

That's dreadful.

That's not racing around. That's plodding.

[Missouri Swede]

40 minutes ago, iacas said:

You’re on the wrong side of this one man.

So's his hashtag.

[fishgolf]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

It took the final groups 5:40 to play the 18 holes on Sunday at The Memorial.

That's dreadful.

That's not racing around. That's plodding.

Based on what I've read, the average PGA tour event round takes 4:45 to 5:30.  I didn't see the final round of The Memorial.  Were there any odd circumstances that contributed to the longer play time for those groups? 

[Shorty]

1 hour ago, fishgolf said:

Does it need to be play this fast?  Golf unlike many sports is not a race involving fastest time.  I see the addition of a shot timer fraught with issues and I am concerned that we add a dimension to a sport who has lived for centuries without it (a shot clock) being part of the game.  The tours already have rules they can and should enforce regarding slow play.  ditchtheshotclock#

Good grief. Are you serious? Do yoiu want to be waiting on every single shot? A fast(ish) game is a good game. If ever there was something that would drive me away from the game it would be 5 hours rounds. The fact that it is not a race doesn't mean that time is irrelevant. It is crucial to enjoyment. Anyone who doesn't care how long their game takes and who has people waiting behind them is an ignorant pig.

[dchoye]

Like this idea  Everyone should get X amount of time to finish the round. Get maybe 2 special “time outs” if OB or really difficult lies to figure how to proceed 

[boogielicious]

7 hours ago, fishgolf said:

Based on what I've read, the average PGA tour event round takes 4:45 to 5:30.  I didn't see the final round of The Memorial.  Were there any odd circumstances that contributed to the longer play time for those groups? 

Spieth had one round of the Masters, in a twosome, that was almost 6 hours a few years ago. Tectonic Plates move faster.

They just play slow. They wait for the other guy to hit, then discuss what they are going to do for a minute or more with their caddy. Then the test the wind, change clubs, test again, change back. It is glacial. You wouldn't put up with it with your playing partners. 

Remember the J. B. Holmes debacle at Torrey Pines early this year? He took ~4.5 minutes on the 18th to decide to lay up and hit a crappy shot into the rough. His playing partner, who was in contention, had to wait to hit his. Not only was it painfully slow, it was downright disrespectful to his playing partner. 

It has to change. The 40 second rule should be enforced.

[fishgolf]

8 hours ago, Shorty said:

Good grief. Are you serious? Do yoiu want to be waiting on every single shot? A fast(ish) game is a good game. If ever there was something that would drive me away from the game it would be 5 hours rounds. The fact that it is not a race doesn't mean that time is irrelevant. It is crucial to enjoyment. Anyone who doesn't care how long their game takes and who has people waiting behind them is an ignorant pig.

I am serious about not turning golf into a timed event/race. I do wholeheartedly agree that really slow play is aggravating and like most try to move myself and those I play with along at typical pace - at least keep up with the overall pace. Not sure about the ignorant pig comment - seems a bit overboard.

But we're talking about PGA tournaments and players whose livelihoods are based on their performance.  How much of this issue is simply due to tournament officials not enforcing existing rules?  What I'm suggesting is that before we turn golf into the NBA or NFL, hanging shot clocks around the course, they simply notify all players that slow play is going to be a focus this season. Also, perhaps change the current 10 offenses in a season = $20k to something that gets everyone's attention as it seems like the big names/earners don't really care about monetary fines, but penalty strokes hit everyone equally. 

 

[fishgolf]

Found this article pretty good.  Great shot of players napping while they wait .  Also I see they already have a "bad time" warning associated with being put on the clock.  So they have rules and that can include issuing penalty strokes - so why then aren't they enforcing it consistently?

https://www.thoughtco.com/pga-tour-slow-play-rules-penalties-1566468

[ghalfaire]

8 hours ago, dchoye said:

Like this idea  Everyone should get X amount of time to finish the round. Get maybe 2 special “time outs” if OB or really difficult lies to figure how to proceed 

I like the idea of a single time out/round or a one time extension of time/round to (2 minutes?).    I like the shot clock but there are situations where the player might need some extra time to evaluate their options. But, unlike me, I am with the majority here in that the lesser evil is to have the clock with no exceptions as opposed to leaving it the way it is now. 

[Shindig]

Shot clock doesn't seem to be hurting the leader either.  -13, second place is five shots back.  

 

I wonder how the sponsor feels about this being called the Shot Clock Masters.  Or is the Shot Clock the presenting sponsor?

... and it looks like we have a penalty.  Announcer seems to think he's going to claim "but it's only two seconds and I made the birdie."

[Missouri Swede]

1 hour ago, fishgolf said:

What I'm suggesting is that before we turn golf into the NBA or NFL, hanging shot clocks around the course, they simply notify all players that slow play is going to be a focus this season. 

It seems they did that. Or at least though about it. Or made it look like that. E.g. https://www.pgatour.com/news/2014/10/07/rules-officials-pace-of-play.html

1 hour ago, fishgolf said:

So they have rules and that can include issuing penalty strokes - so why then aren't they enforcing it consistently?

Exactly. And that's what the shot clock facilitates.

14 minutes ago, ghalfaire said:

I like the idea of a single time out/round or a one time extension of time/round to (2 minutes?).    I like the shot clock but there are situations where the player might need some extra time to evaluate their options. 

Watching the Euro tour this morning, they said that for this tournament, each player get 2 extensions per round (an extra 40 seconds per extension).

[colin007]

On 6/9/2018 at 7:27 AM, boogielicious said:

They just play slow. They wait for the other guy to hit, then discuss what they are going to do for a minute or more with their caddy. Then the test the wind, change clubs, test again, change back. It is glacial. You wouldn't put up with it with your playing partners.

This is what infuriates me...both guys hit it in the fairway, one guy is a yard longer, they get to their balls about the same time, but the guy who's longer doesn't do anything until after the away guy has hit....they even do this on their tee shots on par 3s

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

This is what infuriates me...both guys hit it in the fairway, one guy is a yard longer, they get to their balls about the same time, but the guy who's longer doesn't do anything until after the away guy has hit....they even do this on their tee shots on par 3s

I agree. Ready golf. If you’ve made it to a tour you’ve overcome a lot more difficult obstacles than a 40s shot clock.