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2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France


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Well played team Europe, and well done Bjorn who obviously knows his stuff better than most of us give him credit for. Great tournament 👍

There is a classic management mistake known as "hoping for A while rewarding for B." As you note, we hope that our players will perform well on one type of course, while we select them based on their

I think the posts about it being an exhibition and players not caring is sour grapes.  The players care (especially the younger guys)  they just lost.  No excuses about it they just need to play bette

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4 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I imagine this has been covered here, but if so I haven't seen it. Who designed the course? I didn't hear it mentioned it in the broadcast either. It looks for all the world like a Pete Dye  creation.

Worse...it involved design input from Robert Von Hagge. French Golf architect Hubert Chesneau was the primary guy I believe. 

Edited by HJJ003
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I didn't take issue with the original decision to pair Woods and Reed - actually I was a bit intrigued. But Furyk should have been prepared to call an audible when he saw it wasn't working.

I suppose you could have said the same thing about Webb/Bubba, and look how well that turned out for the US. But I dis-liked the Reed/Woods double down more - for reasons that I have already articulated earlier in this thread.

12 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s all nonsense really, this hindsight analyzing. It’s golf and we just never really know how someone will play. Sergio was a gamble pick...and look. Reed is captain America...and look. We can all say Furyk this....Furyk that...but what it really comes down to is the Euros have played better golf than us. Period.

Well....sure. Obviously the Euros have played better golf than the US so far. But I think it's fair to hold the captain accountable for putting his guys in formats and partnerships that give them the best chance to succeed so far. And I think Furyk has missed the mark on a number of occasions this Ryder Cup.

 

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Manhattan said:

It's too bad Justin Thomas was the only American who played the French Open this year. He seems to have benefited from that experience on this golf course. It's a tough track and reminds me of Sawgrass with thicker rough. 

No coincidence that he has been your best player. I would also have taken Shauffele over Finau. He's a fairways and greens guy, which is just what is needed. Finau is long but wild.

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53 minutes ago, Big C said:

On a podcast prior to the final captain's pick, Brandel Chamblee was advocating hard for Kyle Stanley over Tony Finau. His rationale was that the US was woefully low on guys that could find the fairway off the tee consistently, and that it was going to cost them big time given the course setup. I'm not the biggest Brandel fan out there, but I think he was spot on with that assessment. When I heard today that the most accurate player on the US squad wasn't even top 50 in fairway accuracy, it was pretty eye opening in light of the US struggles.

 

Finau has played better than a lot of the guys who made the team on points. Hindsight is 20/20 but maybe the picks should have been Finau, Stanley, Kisner, and Zach Johnson.

2 minutes ago, weekend hacker1 said:

No coincidence that he has been your best player. I would also have taken Shauffele over Finau. He's a fairways and greens guy, which is just what is needed. Finau is long but wild.

 

Finau's ballstriking has been pretty good from what I have seen. His PUTTER was the difference in that match this morning with Garcia/McIlroy. Sergio and Rory were holing 20, 30, 40 footers and Finau missed multiple putts inside 5 feet including a birdie after a heck of an iron shot by him. 

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13 minutes ago, Big C said:

But I think it's fair to hold the captain accountable for putting his guys in formats and partnerships that give them the best chance to succeed so far. And I think Furyk has missed the mark on a number of occasions this Ryder Cup.

And that’s pure hindsight. Had Woods/Reed cleaned house you wouldn’t be saying, ‘ Boy that was obviously a bad pairing. Furyk really got lucky on that choice.’ No...you wouldn’t. Come on now....

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1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

It’s all nonsense really, this hindsight analyzing. It’s golf and we just never really know how someone will play. Sergio was a gamble pick...and look. Reed is captain America...and look. We can all say Furyk this....Furyk that...but what it really comes down to is the Euros have played better golf than us. Period.

To me criticism is warranted when a decision is made that is indefensible. That applies to coaches (captains) and GMs in sports just as it all applies to all of us in our careers. The Tiger/Reed pairing is defensible- it didn’t work out but most objective people would have said going into into the week that it sounded like a decent pairing on paper. The Phil/BDC pairing in foursomes is objectively and unequivocally indefensible. In sports and the business world- those are the kind of decisions that get people fired and for good reason. 

Edited by skydog
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Typical Team USA Ryder Cup choke job going on.  Can’t hit fairways, missing tap in putts like it’s our job while Europe drains 20 footers like they’re gimmes and never misses a fairway.  What a joke.

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2 hours ago, skydog said:

To me criticism is warranted when a decision is made that is indefensible. That applies to coaches (captains) and GMs in sports just as it all applies to all of us in our careers. The Tiger/Reed pairing is defensible- it didn’t work out but most objective people would have said going into into the week that it sounded like a decent pairing on paper. The Phil/BDC pairing in foursomes is objectively and unequivocally indefensible. In sports and the business world- those are the kind of decisions that get people fired and for good reason. 

I listened to a lot of PGA Tour Radio leading up to the Ryder Cup this week. Pretty much every program had their own version of what the pairings should look like.  Almost all of them were the same.  Then Furyk comes out with his pairings and everyone seemed baffled by the pairings he picked.  Of course, if his pairings had paid off...he would look like a hero.  If not, he would look like a goat.  Well, goat it is.  

2 hours ago, skydog said:

The Phil/BDC pairing in foursomes is objectively and unequivocally indefensible. In sports and the business world- those are the kind of decisions that get people fired and for good reason. 

The Tiger/BDC pairing was just as bad.  Granted Tiger did not play spectacularly but it was pretty hard to make up ground for Dechambeau's mistakes.  

Edited by RickK
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6 minutes ago, RickK said:

I listened to a lot of PGA Tour Radio leading up to the Ryder Cup this week. Pretty much every program had their own version of what the pairings should look like.  Almost all of them were the same.  Then Furyk comes out with his pairings and everyone seemed baffled by the pairings he picked.  Of course, if his pairings had paid off...he would look like a hero.  If not, he would look like a goat.  Well, goat it is.  

Which is funny when Furyk in the press conf today said, ‘ When the pairings came out I’m sure all of you knew they were gonna be that.’

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The way i see it, we need 7 wins tomorrow.  We’re guaranteed to lose at least 2.   Can’t play 12 matches and not lose 2.  Obviously Phil getting rolled by molinari will be one of those losses. 

Koepka, Tiger, DJ, spieth, Fowler, Bryson, I think are the must wins.   The 7th being Webb over Rose or JT over McIlroy.  

I just don’t see Fleetwood losing, even through Finau is in pretty good form.   Hopefully we can scratch out a tie there.  Bubba-stenson is the real wild card match, I think. 

 

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https://www.golfdigest.com/story/there-is-no-such-thing-as-momentum-in-the-ryder-cup

Best part:

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“It’s just another narrative fallacy in sports,” Pirozzolo says. “The 'momentum' thing is not a valid performance enhancement factor. It is a subjective emotional factor caused by the brain's habit of being satisfied by an explanation that has no obvious contradictions.”

That last phrase applies pretty well to the idea of "chemistry" in pairings as well.

Edited by Hardspoon
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