Draw vs Fade: Which is Cooler & Reliable

[Yukari]

All my shots are baby draws, both with the driver and irons.  I don't try to hit them that way, but it's my natural swing I guess.  When I do hit a bad shot, it's either a duck hook or a slice.

[CaseyD]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Who says it's the "proper/correct" shot?

I’m sure most of us not including guys like you that are legit swing coaches/ instructors would agree that everything we were taught early was inside out hit a draw. Not many commercials out there promoting outside in swing path trainers. 

[CaseyD]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

The reason most hear an emphasis on a draw is because the average golfer usually struggles with a slice, and it's hard to slice the ball if you have a swing that hits a draw usually. As such advice to hit draws is popular because people are trying to stop their slice.

That makes sense. I missed this reply earlier. 

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

I’m sure most of us not including guys like you that are legit swing coaches/ instructors would agree that everything we were taught early was inside out hit a draw. Not many commercials out there promoting outside in swing path trainers. 

I get that, but even fades are hit "from the inside." Most golfers SLICE, which is hitting WAY from the outside. A good fader (one who doesn't aim way left like Trevino or even Nicklaus) with a square stance is hitting from the inside until just before impact when the clubhead starts to come back to the inside. In other words, they're barely hitting from the outside… not like most golfers do it.

[CaseyD]

I see. I didn’t know that. I figured a fade had to be hit outside in. Where would you consider the line of fade bs slice?  Like a 12 foot curve is still a fade but 15 foot curve is a slice or does amount not matter as much as the intent. Like I meant to fade it 25 feet vs oh shit I sliced it. Not sure if that makes sense. 

[mvmac]

I think a high draw looks cooler than a fade, no idea why.

Both are just as reliable. The key is to go with whatever is most reliable when you're going hard at it.

On 11/7/2018 at 2:32 PM, Rahul said:

I wonder why the pros are moving to fade?

- I think they fall into the belief that a fade is more reliable. 

- Some players hate seeing the ball go left.

- From a playing perspective, I can see how the feeling of moving the body in a way to create a fade might be more attractive under the gun. Aim the body a little left and rotate the torso left. If you're going to err, just keep the body moving through it, rotate faster. 

[Pretzel]

8 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

I see. I didn’t know that. I figured a fade had to be hit outside in. Where would you consider the line of fade bs slice?  Like a 12 foot curve is still a fade but 15 foot curve is a slice or does amount not matter as much as the intent. Like I meant to fade it 25 feet vs oh shit I sliced it. Not sure if that makes sense. 

Can you control it? That's the big thing. Some people play a 10 foot fade, others play a 15 yard fade (I'm talking about off the tee, not with a wedge).

To me, and this is a persona opinion, it's encroaching on slice/hook territory once the curve starts getting somewhere in the ~30 yard range regardless of whether you're controlling it or not.

I've hit shots that curved 15 feet (a very small curve, by the way, only 5 yards) that I considered to be sliced because I was trying to hit a draw. I've also had 20 yard curves that I considered to be a draw or fade since the hole required a larger curve without it being large enough to feel (to me) like a slice.

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

I see. I didn’t know that. I figured a fade had to be hit outside in. 

In order for the ball to curve to the right, the clubface has to be open to the club path. That's it.

You can make the ball move to the right and still have an in to out club path.

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

7 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Where would you consider the line of fade bs slice?  Like a 12 foot curve is still a fade but 15 foot curve is a slice or does amount not matter as much as the intent. 

I dont think it really matters. Typically, if I start the ball left of target and it comes back somewhere close to where I was aiming, I'm calling that a fade. If I was trying to start the ball middle and it ends up starting right and going further right, I'm more likely to call that a slice than I am a fade

[CaseyD]

46 minutes ago, klineka said:

In order for the ball to curve to the right, the clubface has to be open to the club path. That's it.

You still have to come across the ball to create the spin though, right?  Just open at impact would just shoot the ball right not really curve it?  I’m also going to go check out that link thanks. 

[klineka]

8 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

You still have to come across the ball to create the spin though, right?  

By "come across the ball" you mean out to in swing path, then your answer is no.

If you have a 1 degree in to out swing path and your clubface is open to that path, the ball will start right of your target and curve further right. A good quote that has helped me is something along the lines of "the ball starts (roughly) where the face is aimed and curves away from the club path" 

That is how someone with an OTT movement or an outside to inside path can produce a pull draw. The face being closed to the out to in club path will result in a ball that starts left (face) and curves further away from the out to in club path.

9 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Just open at impact would just shoot the ball right not really curve it? 

To get a straight push to the right with minimal curve, you'd have an inside to out swing path and the clubface would match the path (so the clubface would be open to your target, but the face would match the path. Ball would start right, and just fly straight right along the path.

Edited November 12, 2018 by klineka

[CaseyD]

Oh man. Don’t come to my driving range tomorrow. It’s gonna be a spray and pray session messin with all this info 😂😂

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Oh man. Don’t come to my driving range tomorrow. It’s gonna be a spray and pray session messin with all this info 😂😂

Dont think about it too much! Keep working on your weaknesses as you normally would, just use this new information to help you when you hit a shot that didnt have the ball flight you intended.

On the ball flights of mine that excessively draw or slice, especially at the range, I think about why the ball moved the way that it did and try to correct it for the next shot.

Most of the time I'm not thinking about the clubface to path relationships during my actual swing unless I'm hitting a recovery shot that HAS to move to the right or the left.

[BallMarker]

It would be great to be able to hit one or the other any time I want, but, I can't.

I hit a nature draw so, that's what I play 90% of the time. The fades I hit are purely accident.

[BallMarker]

12 hours ago, CaseyD said:

...The fade and draw are the same thing just opposite curvitures(obviously). So what made the draw correct and the fade “amateur”?

I don't think they're the same.

Draw is more of a "top" spin. While the fade is more of a "back" spin. Hence, you don't get a much roll from fade....(many feel you get more control with the fade, if you can hit it when you want it).

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, BallMarker said:

I don't think they're the same.

Draw is more of a "top" spin. While the fade is more of a "back" spin. Hence, you don't get a much roll from fade....(many feel you get more control with the fade, if you can hit it when you want it).

Not quite. Both have backspin, neither has topspin (or else you'd see a ball that dove into the dirt shortly after you hit it).

The reason a draw usually rolls out more is because a lot of people hit them with a closed clubface, which reduces the loft of the club and also reduces the amount of spin, meaning it'll roll out more.  I usually hit a push-draw with a clubface open to my target, meaning I'm adding loft to the club compared to if it was square. This shot will stop sooner than if I were to hit a pull fade or a perfectly straight shot, because it's hit with more loft on the clubface and as such has more spin.

[boogielicious]

It easy folks. Draw and Fade are cool. Hook and slice are not cool.

[saevel25]

7 hours ago, BallMarker said:

Draw is more of a "top" spin. While the fade is more of a "back" spin. Hence, you don't get a much roll from fade....(many feel you get more control with the fade, if you can hit it when you want it).

A ball spins on a single axis. Think of an airplane and how it tilts left or right. A draw never has top spin. It never has more top spin because it doesn't ever have top spin.

https://blog.trackmangolf.com/spin-axis/

 

[CaseyD]

9 hours ago, BallMarker said:

I don't think they're the same.

Draw is more of a "top" spin. While the fade is more of a "back" spin. Hence, you don't get a much roll from fade....(many feel you get more control with the fade, if you can hit it when you want it).

Correct. I was referring to the working of the ball. Curving the ball in a specific direction.