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Phil McGleno

Kuchar Pays Caddie $5k, Is Shamed, Pays $50k

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3 minutes ago, klineka said:

Not that it really matters or affects the story at all, but it makes me wonder if Kuchar would have paid him more had he known that the payment amount would have been made public. Maybe. Maybe not.

Integrity is what you do when nobody's looking.

Little bonus for those of you following, or the mods who can see silent edits. 😉

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The wages for jobs are different in every country. Even from public golf caddies to exclusive private clubs its way different. I hate the argument that Kuch tried to take advantage of his caddie because he wasn't an American. So what, they guy could've not worked and plenty others would have lined up for what he was paid. I think the guy publishing this story has some sort of grudge with Kuch, which is hard to believe, because he seems like one of the nicest guys on tour. 

We just need a Bubba blow up, or Sergio murdering a bunker, or something Partick Reed related to get the golf world back in order 🙂

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22 minutes ago, iacas said:

Integrity is what you do when nobody's looking.

Little bonus for those of you following, or the mods who can see silent edits. 😉

One of two related principles I've tried to instill in my children:

- Courage is doing what is right, when those around you are not
- Integrity is doing what is right, when no one is around you

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21 hours ago, iacas said:

Maybe, maybe not.

When did Kuchar offer up the $15k? He probably did so well in advance of the January 29th time frame in which Steinberg said "what Matt has offered is fair".

Cuz if so, and he gave him $20k (offered), that's almost 7x his agreed upon pay.

I don't know when that offer was made but $20,000 is a very fair offer. If the offer was made before this all became public then the caddy should have been happy, should have accepted it, and should have shut up. If it was made as amends and to shut the dude up then he STILL should have accepted it and shut up. It's $20,000 for crying out loud!

In my opinion $50,000 seems as ridiculously high as $5,000 seems ridiculously low. 

 

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I lean toward concluding that Kuchar’s been a little cheap here, but when all is said and done, it’s always easier to decide how someone else should have spent his money.

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I feel like part of the responsibility falls on the caddy for this one. How do you agree to work without understanding your compensation? Does $5k seem low, sure, but if that's what they agreed upon it is what it is. Anything more than the agreed upon amount is gratuity which is completely subjective. I know I would not start any job without verifying the details of compensation and if a bonus is mentioned I would ask what it entails to receive it and what it consists of. Communication is key in all relationships, business or personal.

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I'm just playing devil's advocate now.

4 minutes ago, JxQx said:

I feel like part of the responsibility falls on the caddy for this one. How do you agree to work without understanding your compensation?

He doesn't speak English.

4 minutes ago, JxQx said:

Does $5k seem low, sure, but if that's what they agreed upon it is what it is.

It's not low if he barely makes the cut and finishes T58. And he did basically the same job, just later in the day on Saturday and Sunday.

4 minutes ago, JxQx said:

Anything more than the agreed upon amount is gratuity which is completely subjective. I know I would not start any job without verifying the details of compensation and if a bonus is mentioned I would ask what it entails to receive it and what it consists of. Communication is key in all relationships, business or personal.

Can't play devil's advocate to that much, except to say that I've taken on jobs like this without knowing exactly what the compensation is. And from most accounts:

  • He agree to $3k plus an unspecified bonus.
  • $3k was about 7.5x what he'd normally make for four days of work ($100/day). Yeah, he had to carry a larger bag.
  • He may very well be thinking back in hindsight. His first email to Steinberg was probably after being prompted by someone?

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It was an unspecified percentage of the prize-money that would be the bonus as an extra above the $3.000,- (if what we heared about the deal is correct).

Of course it is stupid to make a deal with an unspecified percentage (if that was the case, we don’t know that for sure). Thats for both sides of the contract, but I blame Kuchars team for it far more. Standard for caddies is 10% if you win. So in that situation everything below 5% would be low balling to me.

Winning is like winning the lottery for both player and caddie. It should be an extraordinary amount of money for both of them.

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I think Kuchar is coming off incredibly cheap here. His media persona would have benefited greatly if he gave the guy 50k which isnt an awful lot to him but would seem like a lottery win to many.

I only say it because he won however. 3k would have been absolutely fine if he finished from 2nd to nowhere. 

The caddie isnt coming off well either imo but Kuchar is coming off worse. 

Edited by Nail

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Read the rest of that Twitter thread. 8 posts.

17 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

Standard for caddies is 10% if you win.

That's true of traveling caddies. Not a guy doing his job at his home club.

I can shed a little light on that from the perspective of a Web.com tour guy. The regular guys make about 4x what a "local caddie" makes, and that's on the Web.com Tour which isn't as flush with cash as the PGA Tour.

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My original take on this story was neutral towards Kuchar because essentially all the details were unverified. 

But if the caddie's representation is accurate, then it looks pretty bad for him.

You can fault the caddie for not reaching a firm agreement on what the "bonus" should look like. That leaves the door open for someone to screw you over.

And in essence, that is exactly what Kuchar did - screw the guy over. Not a good look, Matt.

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8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Read the rest of that Twitter thread. 8 posts.

Interesting. A little OT, but a friend's brother caddied for a friend in a qualifier many years ago, who was paired with a young Fred Couples. On the first hole, Couples makes a long putt for birdie. On the way to the next tee, the caddie says "nice putt" to Couples. On the next tee, Couples, getting ready to hit, turns to the Caddy and says "Don't you say one more f***ing word to me", turns around, and hits.

Edited by chspeed

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On 2/12/2019 at 12:28 PM, iacas said:

Integrity is what you do when nobody's looking.

Little bonus for those of you following, or the mods who can see silent edits. 😉

Integrity also means doing what you say you will do, and I've seen 0 evidence that Kuchar didn't do what he said he would do. 

No one questions the integrity of the caddy, yet without him complaining about getting what he agreed to, there would be no story.  So it is a 2-edged sword.  

There is a lot of virtue signalling in this thread about someone else's money.  I just hope y'all are just as generous with your own money.

Edited by turtleback

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5 minutes ago, turtleback said:

I just hope y'all are just as generous with your own money.

There is a bit of a difference. We're not often in a position where someone helps us win $1.3M.

I'm not a big fan of spending other people's money… and I've resisted doing it here.

Where I come down on this with my own opinion is that it was stupid of Matt Kuchar to pay the guy $5k, and to only offer the $15k additional money after the caddie reached out (and probably after Steinberg said "Matt, seriously, $5k?").

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15 minutes ago, iacas said:

There is a bit of a difference. We're not often in a position where someone helps us win $1.3M.

I'm not a big fan of spending other people's money… and I've resisted doing it here.

Where I come down on this with my own opinion is that it was stupid of Matt Kuchar to pay the guy $5k, and to only offer the $15k additional money after the caddie reached out (and probably after Steinberg said "Matt, seriously, $5k?").

But, did he actually help?  Interesting that no one has even considered the possibility that the guy may have been a bad, by tour standards, caddie.  Maybe Kuchar paid him what he thought he was worth.  How much is a club level caddy going to 'help' a successful tour player beyond the purely physical activity of carrying his clubs?  Is he going to help read greens?  Help with clubbing?  Help in working out which shot option to take?  Heck in another message someone said the guy didn't speak English - so how much help could he have been?  There certainly were none of those discussions we sometimes get to hear between a player and his tour caddy.  He was in the right place at the right time - but that doesn't mean that somehow he wins the lottery.

Stupid?  Maybe.  But nothing bearing on Kuchar's integrity IMO.

Edited by turtleback

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2 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Did he actually help?

Where did I say that?

I'm on record as saying he likely carried the bag and did little else.

2 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Stupid?  Maybe.  But nothing bearing on Kuchar's integrity IMO.

Stupid, yes, because for probably $15k his reputation wouldn't be trashed by many.


I asked my wife just now and told her the whole story and she thinks the caddie was well paid and should be happy, and Kuchar is totally in the clear.

I'm still way, way closer to that than thinking he sucks.

But I also think he was stupid. Then again, so was the caddie in turning down $15k.

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Just now, iacas said:

Where did I say that? [In response to my question of whether he actually helped]

.

 

I think it was when you said: We're not often in a position where someone helps us win $1.3M.

 

 

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