Playing for money pro and cons

[MS256]

I like it. Not for the faint of heart. Great game for tournament prep too! With 20 guys playing, that little 3 footer is now worth a $19 swing? That'll get you grinding a bit!

Did you play off of full hcp? Did you pay net birdies, or gross? Seems like net birdies could get troublesome.

I wouldn't want to be the one having to figure out the 20-way results though...or did you just get with each other individually afterward?

Lets see. In my normal group on a typical day I lose by 4 stokes and make 2 less birdies. Sounds like a losing proposition but it would certainly either motivate me or break me.

P.S. I do make more eagles than any of those guys so maybe adding $10 for eagles and I have a chance.

[mvmac]

I like it. Not for the faint of heart. Great game for tournament prep too! With 20 guys playing, that little 3 footer is now worth a $19 swing? That'll get you grinding a bit!

At the time I was playing in college so it was great practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

I wouldn't want to be the one having to figure out the 20-way results though...or did you just get with each other individually afterward?

Yeah we figured out the individuals afterward.  Definitely wasn't a fast process

Did you play off of full hcp? Did you pay net birdies, or gross? Seems like net birdies could get troublesome.

Played full handicaps.  Didn't do net birdies, for some guys if they had one birdie it would count as two, sometimes even three, just depending on what we agreed to before the round.  I normally made more birdies than the rest of the guys so I was happy to "spot" them birdies.

[jgreen85]

I don't like taking money (actual cash) from others. If I'm playing in a foursome of guys I know, I'll usually suggest we choose partners and then losers pay for lunch/drinks after. Like others have said, it adds to the bragging rights. Winners will often say something like "my favorite kind of beer....free beer."

I'm also 100% comfortable playing for my own self-esteem. Trying to hit a good/great shot and shoot a personal best is motivation enough for me, and I don't think a small amount of money is going to add to the pressure. I'd feel just as bad if I won as if I lost. However, just something different for me about food/drink. Maybe b/c every time I went to bars in college/b-school, everyone would take turns buying rounds/pitchers. We never kept track of who bought what.

[rehmwa]

I don't like taking money (actual cash) from others. If I'm playing in a foursome of guys I know, I'll usually suggest we choose partners and then losers pay for lunch/drinks after. Like others have said, it adds to the bragging rights. Winners will often say something like "my favorite kind of beer....free beer."

I'm also 100% comfortable playing for my own self-esteem. Trying to hit a good/great shot and shoot a personal best is motivation enough for me, and I don't think a small amount of money is going to add to the pressure. I'd feel just as bad if I won as if I lost. However, just something different for me about food/drink. Maybe b/c every time I went to bars in college/b-school, everyone would take turns buying rounds/pitchers. We never kept track of who bought what.

THIS - both paragraphs -

- playing for lunch is simple - It also keeps us from all trying to fight for the check for food/drinks - since it's defined already who's paying. It creates a good compromise with the betting crowd.

- I don't like taking the cash either - Most of the time, if I'm forced to play for money just to 'get along' (like 4- 5 times a year), I win more than I lose.  i usually just say "keep your money, I'll take a beer in the clubhouse".

One game I don't like - Skins, where ties carry.  Mainly due to this type of scenario or less obvious versions of the concept - A wins the first two holes by one stroke, they tie on 3-17, B wins on 18 by one stroke.   B takes 17 skins, A takes 1 skin.  (A wins by strokes AND match play, but B gets all the cash for the 15 tied holes?  Seems more fair to not carry ties - I guess that's match play isn't it?)

I see match play is definitely a competitive format, stroke play can be whatever one wants though.

[flopster]

We play low net but for skins players only get half a shot, really cool one time I eagled a par 5 that I stroked on and when it got announced 2 1/2 on that hole everyone looked a bit confused at first and then oooh nice, net albatross.

[zipazoid]

Golf is like billiards......I ALWAYS prefer to play with at least a little something on the line.  Doesn't matter if it's a cold drink, or a $100 Nassau.  The added pressure will absolutely help when it comes tournament time. To paraphrase Lee Trevino..... "Pressure isn't a putt for $10,000.  Pressure is a putt for $5 when you only have $3 in your pocket!"

I'd rather win $5 from one of my golf buddies than find a $100 bill on the ground!

Yep!

Me & My Man Mike always play for the same thing each time we tee it up. A Snickers bar.

[dfreuter415]

When I was younger I used to play money games on a weekly basis, although only for a couple of dollars, with the guys in my golf league. I lost a few, and I won a few. Life was good.

Then we moved, and I started golfing with my current partner who is a 20+ handicap. We never play for money, and I enjoy the game just as much.

[Hammer 4]

Only time I had $$$ on the line, was a 5.00 bet with my boss I could out drive him off the tee. I was in my early 50's, he was in his late 30's..Out of approx. 12- 13 bets, I won about 10 of them..boring huh..?

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgreen85

I don't like taking money (actual cash) from others. If I'm playing in a foursome of guys I know, I'll usually suggest we choose partners and then losers pay for lunch/drinks after. Like others have said, it adds to the bragging rights. Winners will often say something like "my favorite kind of beer....free beer."

I'm also 100% comfortable playing for my own self-esteem. Trying to hit a good/great shot and shoot a personal best is motivation enough for me, and I don't think a small amount of money is going to add to the pressure. I'd feel just as bad if I won as if I lost. However, just something different for me about food/drink. Maybe b/c every time I went to bars in college/b-school, everyone would take turns buying rounds/pitchers. We never kept track of who bought what.

THIS - both paragraphs -

- playing for lunch is simple - It also keeps us from all trying to fight for the check for food/drinks - since it's defined already who's paying. It creates a good compromise with the betting crowd.

- I don't like taking the cash either - Most of the time, if I'm forced to play for money just to 'get along' (like 4- 5 times a year), I win more than I lose.  i usually just say "keep your money, I'll take a beer in the clubhouse".

One game I don't like - Skins, where ties carry.  Mainly due to this type of scenario or less obvious versions of the concept - A wins the first two holes by one stroke, they tie on 3-17, B wins on 18 by one stroke.   B takes 17 skins, A takes 1 skin.  (A wins by strokes AND match play, but B gets all the cash for the 15 tied holes?  Seems more fair to not carry ties - I guess that's match play isn't it?)

I see match play is definitely a competitive format, stroke play can be whatever one wants though.

You don't seem to get the point.  Skins has a couple of good points.  One, the weaker players have just about as much of a chance of winning on a well played hole as the better players, as long as the skill disparity isn't too pronounced or the handicap strokes are fairly alloted.

When played with carries, the pressure builds as the holes build, even when the stakes are small.  I've never seen more than 5 or 6 holes carried in a foursome.  If you have any sort of competitive spirit, a 5 hole carry for a quarter per hole is magnified by the relative feeling of accomplishment or failure when the carry finally falls.  It's especially true when during that run, those great shots happen that put pressure on the others to keep the ties going.  The great bunker shot to 1 foot that suddenly turns another player's 6 foot birdie for a win into a yipped 2 putt for a tie.  That plus the joking and razzing that goes with it just makes it all more fun.  It's not about finding motivation, it's about just adding an extra level of fun and competition.

[saevel25]

You don't seem to get the point.  Skins has a couple of good points.  One, the weaker players have just about as much of a chance of winning on a well played hole as the better players, as long as the skill disparity isn't too pronounced or the handicap strokes are fairly alloted.

When played with carries, the pressure builds as the holes build, even when the stakes are small.  I've never seen more than 5 or 6 holes carried in a foursome.  If you have any sort of competitive spirit, a 5 hole carry for a quarter per hole is magnified by the relative feeling of accomplishment or failure when the carry finally falls.  It's especially true when during that run, those great shots happen that put pressure on the others to keep the ties going.  The great bunker shot to 1 foot that suddenly turns another player's 6 foot birdie for a win into a yipped 2 putt for a tie.  That plus the joking and razzing that goes with it just makes it all more fun.  It's not about finding motivation, it's about just adding an extra level of fun and competition.

Actually skins benefit the higher handicapper. Since it is very hard to go better than a birdie, if a good player gets a birdie, then a high handicap player can get a par or bogie with handicap and tie them on a hole. While if a high handicap gets a par, then they are assured not to loose the hole. So Skins are actually very much tilted towards a higher handicap player.

[Spitfisher]

The one game I never contribute to is NET skins, to many genuinely good golfers with fair to bad handicaps.  (sandbaggers).

[David in FL]

Actually skins benefit the higher handicapper. Since it is very hard to go better than a birdie, if a good player gets a birdie, then a high handicap player can get a par or bogie with handicap and tie them on a hole. While if a high handicap gets a par, then they are assured not to loose the hole. So Skins are actually very much tilted towards a higher handicap player.

[quote name="Spitfisher" url="/t/72028/playing-for-money-pro-and-cons/36#post_940690"]The one game I never contribute to is NET skins, to many genuinely good golfers with fair to bad handicaps.  (sandbaggers). [/quote] I agree. I don't play net skins. Gross only....

[zipazoid]

The one game I never contribute to is NET skins, to many genuinely good golfers with fair to bad handicaps.  (sandbaggers).

Yeah screw that. Straight up. If you want shots we'll do a Nassau.

[flopster]

The one game I never contribute to is NET skins, to many genuinely good golfers with fair to bad handicaps.  (sandbaggers).

We do but they only get a half stroke on holes they stroke on, seems fair to me.

[RickK]

We play for something quite often.  We all know each other and we don't go crazy with the amount of the bet.  Generally, whoever wins most money has to buy drinks.  A lot of times, the drinks are more than the amount you win...so be it.  It is still fun.  All about bragging rights anyway.  Sometimes we play wolf, sometimes we just play skins...net since we have a variety of handicaps.  Another group that I sometimes play with, we pot up $25 each and play skins and closest to the pin on all par 3s.

I'm ok with net skins since we all know each other and know the handicaps are legit. I'm only leary of net skins if I am getting into a group who I have no clue who they are to begin with.

The main thing about playing for money with friends is you have to be careful.  Don't make the bets too large that they make anyone uncomfortable. And, make sure ALL the rules are agreed upon ahead of time.  I have seen postings on here about friendships being stretched or lost because of bets and they way the round played out (or didn't play out). It is not worth losing a good friend over trivial betting on golf.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You don't seem to get the point.  Skins has a couple of good points.  One, the weaker players have just about as much of a chance of winning on a well played hole as the better players, as long as the skill disparity isn't too pronounced or the handicap strokes are fairly alloted.

When played with carries, the pressure builds as the holes build, even when the stakes are small.  I've never seen more than 5 or 6 holes carried in a foursome.  If you have any sort of competitive spirit, a 5 hole carry for a quarter per hole is magnified by the relative feeling of accomplishment or failure when the carry finally falls.  It's especially true when during that run, those great shots happen that put pressure on the others to keep the ties going.  The great bunker shot to 1 foot that suddenly turns another player's 6 foot birdie for a win into a yipped 2 putt for a tie.  That plus the joking and razzing that goes with it just makes it all more fun.  It's not about finding motivation, it's about just adding an extra level of fun and competition.

Actually skins benefit the higher handicapper. Since it is very hard to go better than a birdie, if a good player gets a birdie, then a high handicap player can get a par or bogie with handicap and tie them on a hole. While if a high handicap gets a par, then they are assured not to loose the hole. So Skins are actually very much tilted towards a higher handicap player.

Not true, any more than it's true in match play.  A well played hole is a well played hole, regardless.  If the handicaps are honestly obtained and properly applied, your statement is meaningless.

I've been playing skins for several years in a group of anywhere from 5 to 15 players (depending on how many show up on a given Wednesday), with handicaps ranging from 4 to around 20, and the 20 doesn't win any more often than the 4.  We always follow USGA guidelines and wheel off the low cap, the lowest playing scratch and everyone else getting the difference.  As an 11-12, I would win some, lose some, but I doubt that the total gain or loss over 5 years of almost weekly play would make $100.  It just isn't significant.

I've said it before and the facts haven't changed... the only time that a low handicap is a deficit is when he is trying to compete in a stroke competition against a large group including many high handicappers.  That is the only time that the variability of the high handicap might gain a potential advantage, and even then it's only one or two in the whole group who inevitably happen to wake up and play golf that day.  The rest of the bogey golfers will still play their usual game and lose handsomely to the consistency of the better player.

In a typical foursome, the best player will usually show the best result because of that consistency.  The odds will still favor him.

[saevel25]

Think of it this way. The odds of getting a birdie are much slimmer than getting a par, and a bogey. Just because the lowest score possible is capped in most cases, baring a very rare hole out. This means that a higher handicapper who makes par or bogey has a higher statistical advantage because the odds of paring and birdie is much more Rare for a lower handicap. Just read an article from a golf statistician. It's been proven that avoiding bogeys is more important than making birdies because of the occurrence of a bogey and how difficult it is to make birdies due to the nature of the game. This means for skins high handicap has a better odds of making par or better due to handicap because their handicap is applied more often.

[Pretzel]

Actually skins benefit the higher handicapper. Since it is very hard to go better than a birdie, if a good player gets a birdie, then a high handicap player can get a par or bogie with handicap and tie them on a hole. While if a high handicap gets a par, then they are assured not to loose the hole. So Skins are actually very much tilted towards a higher handicap player.

Since handicaps are calculated using .96 of the differentials for your best 10 rounds it favors the low handicapper over a high handicapped player assuming both handicaps are fair. Let me explain with a demonstration:

Bill's best differentials average out to 5. Using the USGA prescribed method of calculating a handicap, his handicap would be 4.8 because  5 x .96 = 4.8. His handicap is only .2 strokes better than what his differentials actually are.

Bill's friend, Paul, has his best differentials average out to 20. His handicap would be a 19.2 because  20 x .96 = 19.2. This means Paul is getting .6 extra strokes taken from his differential than Bill (remember, Bill only lost .2 of his differential on his handicap). Paul effectively will lose 1 stroke that he would otherwise be entitled to when playing against Bill because of the so-called "Bonus for Excellence" that is built into the handicap system in the form of the .96 multiplier of your differentials.

Is this one stroke meaningful? You tell me, but it's definitely a stroke that Paul will lose if Bill is any good at haggling handicaps on the first tee (Bill's best strategy would be to suggest that they round their handicaps to the nearest full number for "simplicity's sake").