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Simon Dyson DQed at BMW Masters

post #1 of 60
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/dyson-dqd-in-shanghai-after-being-near-lead/:

According to an Associated Press report from the tournament in Shanghai, Dyson committed the infraction during Friday's second round. After marking his ball on the eighth green, he tamped down a spot on his putting line, a violation of Rule 16-1a.

 

On Saturday morning, the Englishman was approached by European Tour officials, who had been informed of the rule breach. The report did not say who informed them.

 

Because Dyson, 35, did not include a two-stroke penalty on the hole, he was disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard.

post #2 of 60

Correct me if I'm wrong ... he's allowed to fix ball marks but nothing else?  So, somebody was able to determine that the thing he tamped down was definitely not a ballmark?  I notice that you can actually see it clearly on the worm cam as the ball rolls past it.  It certainly looks just like a tiny piece of grass due to a spike mark or something, and not a ball mark.

 

But, considering some things I've heard you say in the past about how one of the unwritten rules of the tour is that they pretty much all allow everybody to get away with fixing whatever they please, it's kind of unfortunate that this one time, this one player is subject to the written rule.

 

(Not saying its wrong, just unfortunate)

post #3 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

But, considering some things I've heard you say in the past about how one of the unwritten rules of the tour is that they pretty much all allow everybody to get away with fixing whatever they please, it's kind of unfortunate that this one time, this one player is subject to the written rule.

 

The unwritten rule only applies when you ask another player and they give you the okay. A part of that unwritten rule is that you don't ask for things that are obviously not ball marks.


Basically, the unwritten rule is that they have a loose interpretation of "what is a ball mark." They don't just allow anything to be tapped down.

post #4 of 60

Lame.  Seems if you're wearing spikeless shoes you could just walk on your line to flatten things out.  I don't think the intent even matters because walking isn't the same as tamping and nothing says you can't step on your own putting line.

post #5 of 60
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tee2Trees View Post

Lame.  Seems if you're wearing spikeless shoes you could just walk on your line to flatten things out.  I don't think the intent even matters because walking isn't the same as tamping and nothing says you can't step on your own putting line.

You can't touch your line. Rule 16-1a.
post #6 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

The unwritten rule only applies when you ask another player and they give you the okay. A part of that unwritten rule is that you don't ask for things that are obviously not ball marks.


Basically, the unwritten rule is that they have a loose interpretation of "what is a ball mark." They don't just allow anything to be tapped down.

OK, makes sense.  So the guys know that things that are obviously not ball marks are left alone, but for things that are questionable, they just ask their partner, and presumably, 99% of the time, the partner just nods (quid pro quo ;))??

 

I guess, then, he just had a bit of a brain freeze there, eh?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tee2Trees View Post
 

Lame.  Seems if you're wearing spikeless shoes you could just walk on your line to flatten things out.  I don't think the intent even matters because walking isn't the same as tamping and nothing says you can't step on your own putting line.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

You can't touch your line. Rule 16-1a.

OK, but other than that? ;)

post #7 of 60

Erik, did you call it in?  Trouble maker  ;-)

post #8 of 60

I read  that Dyson was asked after the round if he was fixing a ball mark when he tamped down. So i would give kudos to Dyson for honesty as he replied 'no'. But if the offending stuff had been a worm cast Dyson would have been permitted to brush it away with his hand or with a toothbrush (for example)

post #9 of 60
What was he thinking?! Silly mistake......
post #10 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

The unwritten rule only applies when you ask another player and they give you the okay. A part of that unwritten rule is that you don't ask for things that are obviously not ball marks.


Basically, the unwritten rule is that they have a loose interpretation of "what is a ball mark." They don't just allow anything to be tapped down.

I think Erik is right- whenever they do this, they use a tee or ball mark tool, NOT their putter (or in this case the ball).

 

So did he have a brain freeze like some suggest or was the spike mark directly in his line and he figured he could get away with a quick ball tap that he hoped would go unnoticed?

post #11 of 60
This one just looks like he messed up. It looks like a spike mark and he looks to have tapped it down.
post #12 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 

 

So did he have a brain freeze like some suggest or was the spike mark directly in his line and he figured he could get away with a quick ball tap that he hoped would go unnoticed?

 

I'm going with brain freeze. I don't think it was a conscious thing he did.  If he really wanted to fix a mark in his line then he would follow the procedure of the unwritten rule.

post #13 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

 

I'm going with brain freeze. I don't think it was a conscious thing he did.  If he really wanted to fix a mark in his line then he would follow the procedure of the unwritten rule.
As Erik said, there are limits to the unwritten rule and this would have been going beyond those IMO.

We will never know for sure and you could very well be correct.  However, I think brain freezes are more explainable when someone unconsciously does something that they normally do.  i.e. you normally take a right turn at a particular street to go home but are aware that you should avoid that street because there is construction going on but still make the right turn out of habit.  

Yes, tapping down a spike mark might seem tempting, but I would think that years of competition would condition pro golfers to be in the habit of avoiding doing so.  Of course, once you hole out, fixing spike marks is ok, so maybe the habit of not fixing spike marks is not as well conditioned in Dyson as I might suspect. 

If I wanted to further speculate about whether it was intentional or unconscious, then it would be useful to know if he thought he was on camera or not and where he thought the cameras were placed.  Of course, we don't know what was going on in his head.
post #14 of 60

what is the purpose of this rule btw, so you wont slow down play with fixing everything in your line?

post #15 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlymad View Post
 

what is the purpose of this rule btw, so you wont slow down play with fixing everything in your line?

I think you are correct in the idea that allowing one to fix almost any imperfection leads to abuse from some players.  Where metal spikes continue to be used (e.g. the PGA Tour), spike marks are more common.  My experience at spikeless facilities is there are very few actual spike marks and much more scuffs or twisting damage.  Really annoying to play behind someone who can't/won't pick up their feet or refrain from doing a pirouette near the hole.

post #16 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 

So did he have a brain freeze like some suggest or was the spike mark directly in his line and he figured he could get away with a quick ball tap that he hoped would go unnoticed?

 

Not really sure I like where you're going with this.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post


As Erik said, there are limits to the unwritten rule and this would have been going beyond those IMO.

We will never know for sure and you could very well be correct.  However, I think brain freezes are more explainable when someone unconsciously does something that they normally do.  i.e. you normally take a right turn at a particular street to go home but are aware that you should avoid that street because there is construction going on but still make the right turn out of habit.  

Yes, tapping down a spike mark might seem tempting, but I would think that years of competition would condition pro golfers to be in the habit of avoiding doing so.  Of course, once you hole out, fixing spike marks is ok, so maybe the habit of not fixing spike marks is not as well conditioned in Dyson as I might suspect. 

If I wanted to further speculate about whether it was intentional or unconscious, then it would be useful to know if he thought he was on camera or not and where he thought the cameras were placed.  Of course, we don't know what was going on in his head.

 

Here you go again with the leading questions that already have an answer.  Why do you do that?  I feel like you're sitting over there all excited for somebody to say "yes, I think it's a brain freeze" just so you can unloan this nonsense on them.  Why not just share this opinion from the start?

 

Anyways, you're actually doing here what a lot of people did in the Tiger situation, which is throw out the idea that he's a cheater, with virtually ZERO evidence backing that opinion.  Does Dyson have some sort of history of unscrupulous acts that I am unaware of?  Also, what thought process would drive a player to CONSCIOUSLY decide to try and "get away with" something so stupid knowing A) There is an extremely high likelihood that it was on camera, and B) That if he does get caught after he signs then he's DQ'd, whereas if he leaves it alone and misses his putt because of it, then it costs him only one stroke.  Sorry, but that is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slightlymad View Post
 

what is the purpose of this rule btw, so you wont slow down play with fixing everything in your line?

 

I think, yeah.  Also, I believe, that prohibiting touching your line eliminates the possibility that somebody could (by tamping down the entire path of the putt) create a little "slide" or "path" for their ball directly to the hole.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuehn1952 View Post
 

I think you are correct in the idea that allowing one to fix almost any imperfection leads to abuse from some players.  Where metal spikes continue to be used (e.g. the PGA Tour), spike marks are more common.  My experience at spikeless facilities is there are very few actual spike marks and much more scuffs or twisting damage.  Really annoying to play behind someone who can't/won't pick up their feet or refrain from doing a pirouette near the hole.

 

Yes, but really, even on the PGA tour, how common are steel spikes anymore?  I try to pay attention when I see players shoes, because I've been curious ever since a lot of players stopped wearing any kind of spikes (Couples, Rose, Els, Moore, etc) and I never see them.  Does anybody know if there are players out there who still wear them often or exclusively?

post #17 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

Yes, but really, even on the PGA tour, how common are steel spikes anymore?  I try to pay attention when I see players shoes, because I've been curious ever since a lot of players stopped wearing any kind of spikes (Couples, Rose, Els, Moore, etc) and I never see them.  Does anybody know if there are players out there who still wear them often or exclusively?

I think that Rory was using traditional spikes as recently as 2011-12, not sure about now. I just remember a tweet from Poulter whining about spike marks and the "posers" who still insist on steel spikes, Rory replied with a tweet basically mocking Poulter for not having a high enough SS to justify spikes.

 

Edit* Nike site says Rory wears Lunar Control shoes. He may or may not have these spikes in them though, can't find a pic that's big enough to say.

Tri-Lock with steel spike.

post #18 of 60

Here it is.

 

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