Fatigue, Stiff Muscles, and Sore Muscles Affects

[Cantankerish]

I have played my home course enough times now to see myself hitting and missing the same shots at the same locations in the same ways over and over.  I have noted that I tend to pull the ball for my first few big swings, followed by a few nice holes of straight with a gentle draw, and then increasingly more right as the round goes on.  This is so predictable that I have been in the same locations after my tee shots on the same holes over and over.  Left of the fairway on the early holes followed by some pretty good fairways and then right rough by the 18th.  Every time.  BTW, I either play this particular course or I use the range.  I don't really ever do both on the same day, so I do not have data for warming up before the rounds here.

...hold that thought a moment...

I recently changed to a heavy workout routine on my legs at the gym. On evenings when my legs are in pain from those exercises I tend to slice on the range with the driver - we are talking big banana slices - and not be able to control it.  I am unaware of swinging any differently. 

1. Can I reasonably conclude that my stiff muscles on the early holes are causing the left leaning, sometimes hooked strokes?  Would that lead to the idea that as my muscles warm, I am doing something different leading to what eventually causes the fade?

2. Is it reasonable for me to blame sore leg muscles for a murderous push slice?

Do you see what I am going for here?  The results are becoming predictable, but I really want to know why.  Is it a known issue that certain cold muscles can cause a hook while tired muscles can cause a slice?

[Groucho Valentine]

Sure, i suppose. A push or block is also my predominant miss. For me, its usually an alignment issue. But i can see how tried legs would lead to the shoulders and arms completely taking over the swing. Which can produce a over the top type of swing path that blocks the ball out to the right. 

[Typhoon92]

If your doing a workout that's taking a lot out of you, don't play that day.  I had a killer workout this past Monday and I played 9 a few hours later.  My game was a little " off" and I definitely think the workout had something to do with it.

Most  days I can do both but when I notice some shots going where they never go, I have no doubt it's fatigue.

[billchao]

6 hours ago, Cantankerish said:

Is it a known issue that certain cold muscles can cause a hook while tired muscles can cause a slice?

Is it a known issue? No. I've seen plenty of people at first light tee off with a big banana slice.

Is the state of your muscles going to affect your swing in some way? Definitely.

[GOATee]

The golf swing is a kinematic sequence using ground force through the legs up the torso to the shoulders then the arm and club.

A whole chain of muscles have to fire in sequence and be reasonably fresh and flexible for best results.

Any weak parts along the sequence, for example tired legs will affect the whole chain of muscle firing, leading to changes in club path and swing speed.

[DrvFrShow]

I don't even try driver on the 1st two holes anymore unless I've had time to warm up sufficiently. It ends in disaster. I go with my 4 or 5 iron off the tee. I'm in the middle in the short grass with a 7 iron approach. Once things get loosened up then I go to driver. And yes, tired muscles can cause a slice.

 

[Cantankerish]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.  For the record, I played on Sunday, same course.  But this time I warmed up first.  And ya know what?  I STILL did the same things.  At this point I am baffled.  I wonder if I am being fooled by the direction of tee boxes face or some illusive terrain or in some way pointing my drives the wrong way.

[cooke119]

What is happening with your second shot, hopefully off the fairway? Do you notice a change as you play the round as you do with the driver?

Tee box alignment can screw up anybody. I never look at the box alignment, I pick a small target off in the distance to aim for it instead.

[billchao]

5 hours ago, cooke119 said:

Tee box alignment can screw up anybody.

I never understood this. I don't align myself based on the tee box. I also hit to targets other than the one I'm lined up with at the driving range, so maybe that's part of why I don't have this issue.

[gbogey]

On 5/2/2019 at 9:31 AM, Cantankerish said:

Thanks for the thoughtful responses.  For the record, I played on Sunday, same course.  But this time I warmed up first.  And ya know what?  I STILL did the same things.  At this point I am baffled.  I wonder if I am being fooled by the direction of tee boxes face or some illusive terrain or in some way pointing my drives the wrong way.

I would have two answers:

1. there are certain muscles, thinking back and legs, that will loosen up as you play (particularly if you walk) and so may cause one type of miss early on that goes away throughout the round.  For me if I don't loosen up, I'm prone to hit the ball thin until I get loose. 
2. But as to your thoughts that you did the same thing even when you warmed up first, my guess is that there is probably something about your aim/alignment on those first couple of tee boxes.  It may be something obvious or in your sub conscious that's making you do it.  And, IMO, fairly normal to go through periods where one tee shot predominates on a course you play often.

[Cantankerish]

16 hours ago, gbogey said:

I would have two answers:

1. there are certain muscles, thinking back and legs, that will loosen up as you play (particularly if you walk) and so may cause one type of miss early on that goes away throughout the round.  For me if I don't loosen up, I'm prone to hit the ball thin until I get loose. 
2. But as to your thoughts that you did the same thing even when you warmed up first, my guess is that there is probably something about your aim/alignment on those first couple of tee boxes.  It may be something obvious or in your sub conscious that's making you do it.  And, IMO, fairly normal to go through periods where one tee shot predominates on a course you play often.

This weekend I played Saturday evening and then Sunday morning.  The Saturday round was normal.  The Sunday round I could not hit straight on the drive.  The approach shots are better these days even when I’m fatigued.  But those strokes are considerably less physical.  They do fade a bit, but as we all know that is a lesser problem since you can still end up on the green.

I think I have this one figured out, with the help of this thread.

-its more than one problem...

/sigh/

...golf.

Thanks again for the helpful input.

[JCrane]

On 4/26/2019 at 11:14 AM, Cantankerish said:

I have played my home course enough times now to see myself hitting and missing the same shots at the same locations in the same ways over and over.  I have noted that I tend to pull the ball for my first few big swings, followed by a few nice holes of straight with a gentle draw, and then increasingly more right as the round goes on.  This is so predictable that I have been in the same locations after my tee shots on the same holes over and over.  Left of the fairway on the early holes followed by some pretty good fairways and then right rough by the 18th.  Every time.  BTW, I either play this particular course or I use the range.  I don't really ever do both on the same day, so I do not have data for warming up before the rounds here.

...hold that thought a moment...

I recently changed to a heavy workout routine on my legs at the gym. On evenings when my legs are in pain from those exercises I tend to slice on the range with the driver - we are talking big banana slices - and not be able to control it.  I am unaware of swinging any differently. 

1. Can I reasonably conclude that my stiff muscles on the early holes are causing the left leaning, sometimes hooked strokes?  Would that lead to the idea that as my muscles warm, I am doing something different leading to what eventually causes the fade?

2. Is it reasonable for me to blame sore leg muscles for a murderous push slice?

Do you see what I am going for here?  The results are becoming predictable, but I really want to know why.  Is it a known issue that certain cold muscles can cause a hook while tired muscles can cause a slice?

yes. I think you answered your own question.. When I was younger I lifted heavy, as I got older over 50 , I turned to Yoga and swimming.. That was 22 years ago.

Let me offer this. The body is dynamic and we want the muscles to be mobile and strong. Heavy weights tighten the muscles and we are also isolating the muscle when we focus on a particular body part. We want to build connective strength so the muscles work together and support each other so when we swing the club it becomes all about  muscle memory.

Hopes this makes sense and hope it helps. 

[Piz]

If you have the same thought in your head every time you play the same shot it is no surprise that it turns out the same.  Forget about what usually happens and envision something else.  If the same thing happens you failed.  If something else happens you succeeded.  Golf is not about replicating your greatest shots ever.   Golf is about playing fewer fluffs than you ordinarily do.  That doesn't happen very often.  Thinking about it only helps if you are thinking of something else.  

[MarvChamp]

10 hours ago, Piz said:

If you have the same thought in your head every time you play the same shot it is no surprise that it turns out the same.  Forget about what usually happens and envision something else.  If the same thing happens you failed.  If something else happens you succeeded.  Golf is not about replicating your greatest shots ever.   Golf is about playing fewer fluffs than you ordinarily do.  That doesn't happen very often.  Thinking about it only helps if you are thinking of something else.  

Yes to this @Cantankerish ! I was going to say check your mental state. After 2 years of fighting back from RA and rotator cuff injuries, I go in confident of my ability such as it is. AND I practice setup, address, alignment including the club face all the time so they are really my only pre-swing thoughts. Best, -Marv