Chris Kirk on Indefinite Leave from Tour

[pganapathy]

I agree that the needs help to get better.  Yes, AA or any other Anonymous (gambling, sex etc) support groups are all useful to help a person recover.  I don't agree that this is a medical condition that needs help.  Yes, I can see that all of you disagree with me, so let us just agree to disagree.  I personally believe that a medical condition is something where a person is not self-harming by choice.  You can choose to abstain, or not smoke or do drugs.  That doesn't deserve a medical exemption.  If you fall and hurt yourself, even while drunk, I will grant that the injury is a medical exemption.  But the time off to help you control your vice/s should not be a medical exemption.  I am sure he deserves and will get a medical exemption for the depression and that is warranted.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I don't agree that this is a medical condition that needs help.  Yes, I can see that all of you disagree with me, so let us just agree to disagree.  I personally believe that a medical condition is something where a person is not self-harming by choice.  You can choose to abstain, or not smoke or do drugs.

You’re “disagreeing” with experts who classify alcoholism AND depression as a medical thing.

And you’re wrong that he can simply “choose” not to do those things.

[pganapathy]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

You’re “disagreeing” with experts who classify alcoholism AND depression as a medical thing.

And you’re wrong that he can simply “choose” not to do those things.

Maybe it is just me.  I used to smoke and decided I wanted to quit.  I don't smoke anymore.

Depression was always a medical condition.

I believe the medical association was being too politically correct, or maybe covering all bases by classifying alcoholism as a medical condition.  Yes, it is an addiction, like any other.  Does that make it a medical condition to be treated.  I don't believe that is a fair call.

I understand that I am going to be slated for my views above, but so be it.

[Vinsk]

4 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Maybe it is just me.  I used to smoke and decided I wanted to quit.  I don't smoke anymore.

Depression was always a medical condition.

I believe the medical association was being too politically correct, or maybe covering all bases by classifying alcoholism as a medical condition.  Yes, it is an addiction, like any other.  Does that make it a medical condition to be treated.  I don't believe that is a fair call.

I understand that I am going to be slated for my views above, but so be it.

People do not choose how susceptible they are to addictive substances. There have been many, many cases where a person completely naive to opioids was placed on them for knee surgery, for example. The prescriber negligently wrote directions as ‘take 2 tabs every 8 hrs.’ So they do exactly that. Next thing you know they’re addicted to the medication without even realizing it. And this is especially difficulty to deal with if the person is genetically prone to opioid dependence. 

Some people can drink alcohol everyday and stop at one drink. Then go weeks without having any. Some people have a couple of drinks and it triggers an insatiable response to continue.

Additive substances don’t effect everybody the same. Period. It’s similar to muscular build/fitness gurus. I’m not minimizing their efforts but some people can do much less training and see substantially better results all based on their DNA, not their incredible workouts alone.

Same with your smoking. It’s awesome you quit but you may have a much less ‘inherent addiction’ to nicotine than another person. 

Sometimes it takes a lot of self reflection to admit one has an addiction. They want to ‘beat it’ or often try to deny it. They will tell themselves they will only have two beers then stop. Or just a glass of wine with dinner ....4 hours later they’re smashed after having one after the other.

The acceptance that one has an issue is a responsibility that one needs to take/accept. But you must understand the medical side of this and show compassion for them. It’s not easy to accept you have such an issue especially with a substance (alcohol) you see so many people enjoy with no issues at all. 

Chris has taken this step.

[leftybutnotPM]

18 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Maybe it is just me.  I used to smoke and decided I wanted to quit.  I don't smoke anymore.

 

And guess what? If you had contracted lung cancer caused by your foolish choice to smoke you would have a medical condition.

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Maybe it is just me.  I used to smoke and decided I wanted to quit.  I don't smoke anymore.

Oh brother. Yes, your situation is exactly like everyone else’s.

23 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Depression was always a medical condition.

And it’s one of the two reasons for his leave of absence.

23 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I believe the medical association was being too politically correct, or maybe covering all bases by classifying alcoholism as a medical condition.

Yeah, they made a decision that has multi-billion dollar ramifications out of fear of being politically (in)correct.

Ha ha ha.

Far, far more likely that they made a sound medical decision based on their expertise.

But what do they know. You quit smoking that one time… 😛

[Patch]

On 5/9/2019 at 11:41 AM, pganapathy said:

That is a bullshit call.  Learn to take responsibility for your actions.  This is more about being PC.  Kinda like giving all participants a medal at a race.  It is a race.  Whoever comes first deserves gold.  A participation medal is different to a prize winning medal. ☹️

Let all hope @pganapathy never suffers from a self inflicted addiction of any kind. . 

[leftybutnotPM]

1 minute ago, Patch said:

Let all hope @pganapathy never suffers from a self inflicted addiction of any kind. . 

More importantly, let's hope that he does not work in the medical profession.

Imagine his compassionate response to a child who presents with a broken arm after falling off a fence.

"You do not have a medical condition. You chose to do something dangerous. It was not an accident, consequently you do not have a condition that can be treated."

[ncates00]

49 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I agree that the needs help to get better.  Yes, AA or any other Anonymous (gambling, sex etc) support groups are all useful to help a person recover.  I don't agree that this is a medical condition that needs help.  Yes, I can see that all of you disagree with me, so let us just agree to disagree.  I personally believe that a medical condition is something where a person is not self-harming by choice.  You can choose to abstain, or not smoke or do drugs.  That doesn't deserve a medical exemption.  If you fall and hurt yourself, even while drunk, I will grant that the injury is a medical exemption.  But the time off to help you control your vice/s should not be a medical exemption.  I am sure he deserves and will get a medical exemption for the depression and that is warranted.

The only bullshit in this thread is your own logic.  Reread what you just said.

42 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

too politically correct

Has nothing to do with green participation ribbons or PC.  It's called science.

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

People do not choose how susceptible they are to addictive substances.

+1

Edited May 13, 2019 by dennyjones

[colin007]

I think perhaps the "apathy" part of his screen name is appropriate.

[jamo]

2 hours ago, pganapathy said:

I agree that the needs help to get better.  Yes, AA or any other Anonymous (gambling, sex etc) support groups are all useful to help a person recover.  I don't agree that this is a medical condition that needs help.  Yes, I can see that all of you disagree with me, so let us just agree to disagree.  I personally believe that a medical condition is something where a person is not self-harming by choice.  You can choose to abstain, or not smoke or do drugs.  That doesn't deserve a medical exemption.  If you fall and hurt yourself, even while drunk, I will grant that the injury is a medical exemption.  But the time off to help you control your vice/s should not be a medical exemption.  I am sure he deserves and will get a medical exemption for the depression and that is warranted.

Everything else aside, I just don't understand what would ever compel someone to say that bolded sentence. 

[pganapathy]

Alright.  Let me just clarify my stance.  I am perfectly OK to get trolled.

Kirk is entitled to medical relief/exemption for the Depression.

If Kirk got injured, say fell and broke his hand as somebody mentioned above, he would be entitled to medical relief/exemption for the hand injury.

I don't believe Kirk should be entitled to relief because he chooses to drink every day.  That as far I am concerned is self-inflicted and not deserving of a medical exemption.

By all means I am happy that he is getting treated for it, and should be free to take a leave of absence, but not be entitled to medical exemption for that.

So, to sum up, Kirk is entitled to medical exemption for his Depression treatment.  He is entitled to take a leave of absence for his alcoholism, but shouldn't get a medical exemption for the alcoholism.

OK, if people think that view is wrong, I am fine with that.

Somebody above mentioned would I as a doctor not treat a kid who fell and broke his arm.  Of course I would.  I have done similar stuff.

My view is very simple, especially for adults.  Yes, accidents happen.  But when you do stupid things to allow it to happen, it isn't smart.  So, for example, getting drunk every night is just going to increase the possibility of you slipping/staggering and falling.  I don't begrudge DJ the injury he had when he slipped on the stairs at the Masters a year or two ago.  That is the definition of an accident.

[ncates00]

9 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Alright.  Let me just clarify my stance.  I am perfectly OK to get trolled.

Kirk is entitled to medical relief/exemption for the Depression.

If Kirk got injured, say fell and broke his hand as somebody mentioned above, he would be entitled to medical relief/exemption for the hand injury.

I don't believe Kirk should be entitled to relief because he chooses to drink every day.  That as far I am concerned is self-inflicted and not deserving of a medical exemption.

By all means I am happy that he is getting treated for it, and should be free to take a leave of absence, but not be entitled to medical exemption for that.

So, to sum up, Kirk is entitled to medical exemption for his Depression treatment.  He is entitled to take a leave of absence for his alcoholism, but shouldn't get a medical exemption for the alcoholism.

OK, if people think that view is wrong, I am fine with that.

Somebody above mentioned would I as a doctor not treat a kid who fell and broke his arm.  Of course I would.  I have done similar stuff.

My view is very simple, especially for adults.  Yes, accidents happen.  But when you do stupid things to allow it to happen, it isn't smart.  So, for example, getting drunk every night is just going to increase the possibility of you slipping/staggering and falling.  I don't begrudge DJ the injury he had when he slipped on the stairs at the Masters a year or two ago.  That is the definition of an accident.

Intent, negligence, or stupidity doesn't change whether the resultant harm is medical or not.

Edited May 13, 2019 by ncates00

[iacas]

@pganapathy you aren’t getting “trolled” and you seemingly are not reading the responses to you.

His drinking is likely not “a choice.”

You are coming off incredibly poorly.

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, pganapathy said:

I don't believe Kirk should be entitled to relief because he chooses to drink every day.  That as far I am concerned is self-inflicted and not deserving of a medical exemption.

I mean this in all seriousness, because I think it is the root cause of the discussion we're having.  Do you understand what an addiction is?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Shindig said:

I mean this in all seriousness, because I think it is the root cause of the discussion we're having.  Do you understand what an addiction is?

He does not, because he was able to quit smoking once.

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, Shindig said:

I mean this in all seriousness, because I think it is the root cause of the discussion we're having.  Do you understand what an addiction is?

I think he may be confusing it with ‘habit’.