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Former Pros Getting Reinstated as Amateurs

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2 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Are there examples where pros have regained their amateur status and gone out with the aim of thrashing weekend amateurs? I doubt it. 

I don’t think that is their aim, but I can envision a pro that wants to play in tournaments again, especially when they are over 50, and are not, for whatever reason, on the Champions tour.

I can’t speak for touring pros, but If I had played for years and missed the competition it would be fun to do Senior Amateur events.

I think the question really is whether that is an unfair advantage to amateurs who never played professional, or not?

It doesn’t matter to me, but those here who play in those events might have a better perspective.

John

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4 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Are there examples where pros have regained their amateur status and gone out with the aim of thrashing weekend amateurs? I doubt it. 

You added the word “weekend.”

He didn’t say “weekend.”

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On this morning's Shotgun Start podcast:

Jeff Quinney ($5.75M in PGA Tour Earnings) applied for Reinstated Am status, so he’ll get it back in 2021. He made 75 cuts made on the PGA Tour, which means that he’s eligible for and receives a PGA Tour pension. So he'll be playing as an amateur but receiving actual cash earned as a professional golfer.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

On this morning's Shotgun Start podcast:

Jeff Quinney ($5.75M in PGA Tour Earnings) applied for Reinstated Am status, so he’ll get it back in 2021. He made 75 cuts made on the PGA Tour, which means that he’s eligible for and receives a PGA Tour pension. So he'll be playing as an amateur but receiving actual cash earned as a professional golfer.

Sad.

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28 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Sad.

He has said it’s mostly for member guest events and avoiding complications there.

But still. He’s still taking money from other actual amateurs.

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How about this: If a pro has retained that status for 4 years, it would take 4 years to revert back to an amateur.  If they were a pro for 15 years, it would take 15 years to revert to amateur.  Or perhaps some sort of multiplier (.5 time spent as a pro)?

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I think never is too harsh as well. I think there would have to be more factors in the decision. I like the multiplier idea but think you would have to factor in the success that was achieved at the Pro level as well. It would almost have to be a case by case analysis. I have a friend that recently went from Pro to Am and there are several guys at my club that I know would beat him more times than not and more around the area as well. That's not to say that he isn't good, but there are just guys out there that are better but never had the same opportunities that he did. Not to mention that up and coming talent. I know several high school kids in the area that would beat him.

Edited by TN94z

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4 hours ago, amished said:

How about this: If a pro has retained that status for 4 years, it would take 4 years to revert back to an amateur.  If they were a pro for 15 years, it would take 15 years to revert to amateur.  Or perhaps some sort of multiplier (.5 time spent as a pro)?

While I think that's probably the best idea I've been able to come up with, too, you'll easily find some guys who break that. What if a guy is pro for 15 years but NEVER has any real success? What if he's just an assistant at a club - a golf professional - not a "professional golfer"? In those cases 15 years seems very harsh.

But at the same time, if you're a pro and you win $6M on the PGA Tour and so on, and you were a pro for 10 years, waiting another 10 years might seem too low, too.

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9 hours ago, iacas said:

On this morning's Shotgun Start podcast:

Jeff Quinney ($5.75M in PGA Tour Earnings) applied for Reinstated Am status, so he’ll get it back in 2021. He made 75 cuts made on the PGA Tour, which means that he’s eligible for and receives a PGA Tour pension. So he'll be playing as an amateur but receiving actual cash earned as a professional golfer.

Somehow, to me...that is just wrong!   Just like a born again virgin!

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11 hours ago, iacas said:

On this morning's Shotgun Start podcast:

Jeff Quinney ($5.75M in PGA Tour Earnings) applied for Reinstated Am status, so he’ll get it back in 2021. He made 75 cuts made on the PGA Tour, which means that he’s eligible for and receives a PGA Tour pension. So he'll be playing as an amateur but receiving actual cash earned as a professional golfer.

I wasn’t aware PGA tour professionals got a pension.  Do they get a retiree medical too?

John

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2 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

I wasn’t aware PGA tour professionals got a pension.

Heck yeah they do. It's quite lucrative if you have a decent career.

MW-GO780_tigerp_ZG_20180822194442.jpg

This year the top golfer will win a FedEx bonus of $15 million, and $1 million of it will go into his retirement fund.
Quote

 

Over 600 pro golfers currently have more than $1 million in their retirement plans, and some have significantly more.

There are two ways golfers can earn retirement money. One is by making the cut at a tournament, as long as they play in at least 15 events. Typically 144 golfers try to make it into a tournament and the 70 with the lowest score after 36 holes make it. Each time a golfer made a cut this year, it was worth $4,800 into their retirement account, and each one they made over 15 was worth double that.

 

 

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12 hours ago, iacas said:

On this morning's Shotgun Start podcast:

Jeff Quinney ($5.75M in PGA Tour Earnings) applied for Reinstated Am status, so he’ll get it back in 2021. He made 75 cuts made on the PGA Tour, which means that he’s eligible for and receives a PGA Tour pension. So he'll be playing as an amateur but receiving actual cash earned as a professional golfer.

Sorry, there is no reason he should get his status back.  I have no problem with club pros getting it back, I know some who have.  If you played on the PGA tour, and had that kind of success where you will get residual payments, you shouldn't get it back.

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4 hours ago, iacas said:

While I think that's probably the best idea I've been able to come up with, too, you'll easily find some guys who break that. What if a guy is pro for 15 years but NEVER has any real success? What if he's just an assistant at a club - a golf professional - not a "professional golfer"? In those cases 15 years seems very harsh.

But at the same time, if you're a pro and you win $6M on the PGA Tour and so on, and you were a pro for 10 years, waiting another 10 years might seem too low, too.

I can see that. Perhaps the modifier is based on what level of success you've been able to play to? So if you've made it to the PGA tour, you might have a 2x modifier, but if your professional career has made you less than X amount of prize money you might have a .25 modifier? I don't know how often club pros play in smaller tournaments to base the lower value on to try to be fair to the most amount of people. 

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For about 6 months after college, I was an Assistant Professional at a private club outside Louisville, Kentucky. I had stars in my eyes about what I was getting into and after leaving the job and moving out of the country to work elsewhere, the USGA made me wait 1 year from my date of application before I got the official letter congratulating me for getting my amateur status back.

I had heard it was a process and expected the year, though I'm not sure what it was protecting golf from. The sum total of my professional winnings from the one pro tournament I played in amounted to $5.00. (You can be impressed later)

So, from my standpoint of been there, done that, I feel like my extremely low level of time and success in the golf business might have deserved the 1 year wait. On the other hand, a tour pro with little success should probably wait longer. A previously successful tour player probably wouldn't want their amateur status back, but I don't agree they should never be able to get it back if they so desire.

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On 8/2/2019 at 8:01 AM, iacas said:

On this morning's Shotgun Start podcast:

Jeff Quinney ($5.75M in PGA Tour Earnings) applied for Reinstated Am status, so he’ll get it back in 2021. He made 75 cuts made on the PGA Tour, which means that he’s eligible for and receives a PGA Tour pension. So he'll be playing as an amateur but receiving actual cash earned as a professional golfer.

I went into this thread thinking "eh who cares just give them the amateur status back" but that one is at least a few bridges too far. 

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If a guy is good enough to get onto the PGA Tour, then he obviously has reached a skill level that exceeds an amateur golfer's skill level.  He's made the choice to become a pro and play against other professionals.  IMHO, he shouldn't have the right to say, "Well, I don't want to be a pro anymore.  I now want to compete against amateurs."  Doesn't make much sense to me.  So a former PGA pro could theoretically win the U.S. Amateur?  Not right.

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On 8/2/2019 at 4:21 PM, iacas said:

While I think that's probably the best idea I've been able to come up with, too, you'll easily find some guys who break that. What if a guy is pro for 15 years but NEVER has any real success? What if he's just an assistant at a club - a golf professional - not a "professional golfer"? In those cases 15 years seems very harsh.

But at the same time, if you're a pro and you win $6M on the PGA Tour and so on, and you were a pro for 10 years, waiting another 10 years might seem too low, too.

I agree with this. The case you mention of a guy who had some success on tours should be denied amateur status for a long time and, IMO, shouldn't ever be allowed to play in USGA amateur events. A golf professional is a different story. Guys who are club professionals spend a lot of time on other things besides their game and, if they decide that the life is no longer for them, they should be allowed to return to amateur status in a year or two. I know a number of guys who were assistants, got tired of waiting for that elusive head job, and had other opportunities that would change their life financially so they took them. I still play with one of them who is a member at our club and he is just another guy who you might get paired with, albeit with a + handicap. His club pro days are way behind him, but he refuses to play in the local association amateur events. He was one of the better local professionals in his day and he doesn't want to draw negative attention to himself.  

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The issue is whether there is an unfair competitive advantage or not.  A pro who has never been a playing pro has no such advantage.  They obtained their card so as to be able to earn a living via supplying a service to the golf industry.  Such services would include working in or owning a proshop, teaching golf and selling golf supplies/equipment.  Accordingly, pros who were never playing pros should be allowed to compete in amateur events.

Playing pros obviously have such an advantage and the advantage clearly exists while they are an active playing pro and will continue for a period of time after retiring from competing as a playing pro.  The period of time the advantage continues to exist post retirement from being a playing pro is difficult to determine due to many quantitative and qualitative variables.  Such period of time maybe even be indefinite as playing pros may have amassed either such a significant wealth or celebrity status from playing as a pro that they can continue for the rest of their lives to devote their time, effort and resources into improving/maintaining their golf playing skills.  Since the post retirement period of time is so hard to define it would be easiest to not allow any current or former playing pros from ever competing in amateur events.  Pros who choose to become a playing pro simply need to accept that they have chosen and agreed to be forever prohibited from competing in amateur events when they chose to become a playing pro.

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