Former Pros Getting Reinstated as Amateurs

[iacas]

Matt Parziale has been celebrated a bit recently as an amateur… when really, the guy is a former (and failed, you could say) pro golfer who got his amateur status back.

Many in golf feel that these "lapsed pros" shouldn't be able to get their amateur status back, or if they should, they should have to wait longer than a year or so.

I don't really care too much myself, but I care enough to start the topic, and to discuss it.

What do you think the rules for regaining your amateur status back should be? How long - or how much success - at being a pro should make you ineligible? Where do you draw the line between golf professionals and professional golfers?

Just to give it a bit more space - so that people can enter their own posts instead of immediately debating whatever I end up posting as my take - I'm going to hold my take for a bit and just leave it as an open-ended question for now.

[Divot Master]

It takes two years for a pro to stop competing and fall all the way off the world golf ranking, might make sense for that to be the minimum time to regain amateur status also.

[Vinsk]

Never. If you made it to professional status that’s it. Part of being a member of such an elite club is maintaining your status. You might be unsuccessful or even a total flop. So be it. You can’t just start over again. Now I don’t know the details of how this works regarding ‘keeping one’s card’ but I don’t think once turning pro you should be able to go back to amateur status. 

[Shindig]

I think it should be proportional to your success, which I haven't given much thought about how to quantify, as a pro, rather than a fixed amount of time.

[iacas]

40 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Never. If you made it to professional status that’s it. Part of being a member of such an elite club is maintaining your status. You might be unsuccessful or even a total flop. So be it. You can’t just start over again. Now I don’t know the details of how this works regarding ‘keeping one’s card’ but I don’t think once turning pro you should be able to go back to amateur status. 

That doesn't apply to golf professionals, though, @Vinsk. @mvmac was a pro (he was going to possibly teach, etc.) and got his amateur status back. He didn't try to play professional golf.

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Matt Parziale has been celebrated a bit recently as an amateur

I get that part about Mike. But this..celebrated for doing what?  Playing well? If that's the case I don’t see the point. He played as a professional and now he’s playing again but as an amateur? I’m poorly educated on the benefits of this.

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I get that part about Mike. But this..celebrated for doing what?  Playing well? If that's the case I don’t see the point. He played as a professional and now he’s playing again but as an amateur? I’m poorly educated on the benefits of this.

You saw the stories. He was the "Boston firefighter who made it to the Masters" or whatever.

But he was also fairly recently a pro golfer. The benefits? He can win the U.S. Am, the U.S. Mid-Am, etc.

[Vinsk]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

You saw the stories. He was the "Boston firefighter who made it to the Masters" or whatever.

But he was also fairly recently a pro golfer. The benefits? He can win the U.S. Am, the U.S. Mid-Am, etc.

Ahh ok. The name didn’t trigger me. But still ...he can win the U.S. Am, Mid-Am? So what  makes a golfer an amateur? I’d feel pretty silly to win those events having an asterisk after them. Just my opinion.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Vinsk

[Buckeyebowman]

That's real nice, but how much money can he make playing amateur golf?! Yes, playing for the US AM or the MID AM is nice, but that costs money running around from place to place. Will this guy become the next Titanic Thompson? A super hustler?! Or will he become an investment banker and grow immensely rich?!

Really? Think of Dustin J as an investment banker! 

Think about it, the dudes who are at the top of the list, and have been there for years, are water walkers! They have truly defied the odds! The golf rankings are full of guys who have floated up for a year or two, and then sunk back down again. It's the nature of the game. 

I have no problem with restoring amateur status. Pro status in golf is immensely difficult to maintain. Besides, once amateur status is restored, what's the man, or woman, to do? Get a job at a country club? So they can ride herd on a gang of disinterested youngsters and listen to complaints from members about bird crap on the ball washers? Oh, joy! 

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Pro status in golf is immensely difficult to maintain.

No, it's not. One must simply declare oneself to be a "professional golfer."

You could become a pro within ten seconds of reading this post.

[DeadMan]

I don't really have much of a problem with a guy who failed to make it on the mini tours regaining his amateur status. I would be okay if you couldn't regain your amateur status after being a member of the KF Tour or the PGA Tour, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. 

I think a lot of the complaining comes from people who have the dream to play in the mid-Am, and get annoyed that they have to compete against former professionals. But, I think they should just sack up and get better. Even if you limited amateur status to people who have never been professionals, the mid-Am will still be dominated by former college golfers in their 20s or early 30s and not by some 40 year old dad. 

The only thing that really bugs me is guys regaining their amateur status and then becoming a pro again. Gary Nicklaus, for example. I think if you regain your amateur status, you should not be able to turn pro again. At least a touring pro; I don't care at all about teaching pros going back and forth.

In sum, this is about a 2 out of 10 on a scale of things I care about. 

[David in FL]

I’m not a fan...

You can’t get your virginity back just for asking either...

[mvmac]

As @iacas said, anyone can be a pro or stay a pro, it's not like you get drafted or something. 

6 hours ago, iacas said:

What do you think the rules for regaining your amateur status back should be? How long - or how much success - at being a pro should make you ineligible? 

I think if you play more than three seasons on the PGA Tour you should probably be ineligible from getting it back. Anything less than that there should be some sliding scale, I don't know what that might be but probably in the 5-year range for getting your am status back. If you played mini tours and hardly made any money, then it should be more like a year.

A little pet peeve of mine is when you have some of these former pros who weren't successful as a pro play in am events, do well and people kinda scoff at them, "oh, he's basically a pro". Well no, he's got a regular job now, he was good enough to give it a shot (like many college kids do) and it didn't work out. I don't feel like that player has an unfair advantage or trying to take advantage of the situation. They still have to work at their game and still have to go out and shoot the score.

To me the whole pro thing is mostly just a title, there are plenty of amateurs who are better than pros that play for a living. I'll take Stewart Hagestad over plenty of pros.

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Where do you draw the line between golf professionals and professional golfers?

There almost needs to be three categories. Tour players, golf professionals who want to play in events against other pros for money and golf professionals who aren't interested in competing at a high level. I guess the line could be where your main source of income comes from. 

[leftybutnotPM]

On 7/26/2019 at 9:14 AM, Vinsk said:

Never. If you made it to professional status that’s it. Part of being a member of such an elite club is maintaining your status. You might be unsuccessful or even a total flop. So be it. You can’t just start over again. Now I don’t know the details of how this works regarding ‘keeping one’s card’ but I don’t think once turning pro you should be able to go back to amateur status. 

 

I think that's a bit harsh.

I know several players who turned professional many years ago and could not make a living. They regained their amateur status years later. That doesn't mean that they entered tournaments and beat amateurs. It was just a natural and inevitable reality.

You are saying that a player who turned pro in 1980 at 20 and got injured at 23 and regained amateur status cannot be an amateur golfer at age 60 in 220? Come on....

 

On 7/26/2019 at 12:20 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Pro status in golf is immensely difficult to maintain. 

You forgot the bit at the beginning where you should have said "Making a decent living with...."

Why do you think it's "immensely difficult"? It's as simple as making a declaration. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[Sandy Divot]

I have played practice rounds with mini tour guys that were giving it a shot for a year before they got a regular job. Some of these guys probably didn't make enough money to cover their expenses. They probably were not even the best player at their home course. I have no problem with guys regaining their amateur status. I believe there is a limit as to how many times a guy can turn pro, and go back, but I'm not sure what it is.

[70sSanO]

I think it all comes down to earnings.

There are some touring pros out there who have bounced back and forth between the PGA and Web.com (KF) for years, never won, but earned $2M or more over 10 years.

Then there are players that played those same 10 years and earned $300k.  After expenses they might break even.

Finally there is the group that played for a couple years, with no success, maybe ended up losing on The Big Break, and that’s the extent of their career.

I think there needs to be a set threshold of tour earnings vs expenses to allow a return to amateur status.  It may be that the golfer who made $2M can’t get amateur status back.  I’m not sure if a waiting period means that much. A year or two is fine if a person qualifies, from earnings, to return to amateur status.

Not sure why I thought of Ricky Barnes, but could you really give him amateur status?

John

Edited July 30, 2019 by 70sSanO

[p1n9183]

As @iacas stated you just can turn pro in a blink of an eye. Waiting 1 year to regain amateur status it´s ok for golf professionals, but for professional golfers I think that the amount of years should be longer, like 3 or 5 years. On those years in general they will become inmerse in their new jobs and start loosing their Pro game making it fair for the other amateurs. 

[leftybutnotPM]

On 7/31/2019 at 3:29 AM, p1n9183 said:

As @iacas stated you just can turn pro in a blink of an eye. Waiting 1 year to regain amateur status it´s ok for golf professionals, but for professional golfers I think that the amount of years should be longer, like 3 or 5 years. On those years in general they will become inmerse in their new jobs and start loosing their Pro game making it fair for the other amateurs. 

Are there examples where pros have regained their amateur status and gone out with the aim of thrashing weekend amateurs? I doubt it.