Course Management Strategies to Break 90

[burr]

I'm not the one ripping anybody, just pointing out the facts.  I'm not a drive by, I have a comment early in this discussion, it apparently was not prevalent as to have reply.  It was simple.  I joined this place since I was re-starting golf as a recreation after 16 years away to learn about new equipment and anything I might need to enjoy the game more.  I also am not one to comment on ever little issue that I might have opinion, seems to be plenty of that without my 2cents.  But believe me, I am here from time to time.  top of this forum states 'course management strategies to break 90' and I am in this particular point in my game.  OK?

sorry for the defensive attitude, I am not used to commenting back for such but ...

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, burr said:

I'm not the one ripping anybody, just pointing out the facts.  I'm not a drive by, I have a comment early in this discussion, it apparently was not prevalent as to have reply.  It was simple.  I joined this place since I was re-starting golf as a recreation after 16 years away to learn about new equipment and anything I might need to enjoy the game more.  I also am not one to comment on ever little issue that I might have opinion, seems to be plenty of that without my 2cents.  But believe me, I am here from time to time.  top of this forum states 'course management strategies to break 90' and I am in this particular point in my game.  OK?

sorry for the defensive attitude, I am not used to commenting back for such but ...

The bulk of my comment was fairly clearly, IMO, directed at @Hugh Jars. The purpose of the forum is to discuss ways to get better, not to just say "you're all a bunch of idiots" and then leave for another two weeks before swinging by to ignore everything else said in the meantime.

[DaveP043]

54 minutes ago, burr said:

I'm not the one ripping anybody, just pointing out the facts.  I'm not a drive by, I have a comment early in this discussion, it apparently was not prevalent as to have reply.  It was simple.  I joined this place since I was re-starting golf as a recreation after 16 years away to learn about new equipment and anything I might need to enjoy the game more.  I also am not one to comment on ever little issue that I might have opinion, seems to be plenty of that without my 2cents.  But believe me, I am here from time to time.  top of this forum states 'course management strategies to break 90' and I am in this particular point in my game.  OK?

sorry for the defensive attitude, I am not used to commenting back for such but ...

It is for the benefit of you, and of other golfers who are at a similar stage in their development as golfers, that you see so much criticism of some of the excessively conservative strategies some folks suggest.  If someone suggests that its a good idea to give up distance potential for no specific reason, he's wrong.  Now if a fairway pinches in, or hazards start out there at a specific distance, of course it can make sense to play short of the problem areas, but don't lay up without a specific reason.  Similarly, the guy who suggested playing a par-5 with four 150-yard shots is guiding you down the wrong path.  At your level, you're almost certain to mess up one of those shots, that's what 20 handicappers do.  So we're just trying to debunk some of the bad advice that comes around sometimes.

Sometimes we come across as shills for this site and its owner, but I honestly recommend that you buy his book, Lowest Score Wins.  He presents a very clear and well-though-out method for on-course management, among a bunch of other good information.  

[burr]

probably should have used pertinent (instead of prevalent - brainfade) in my comment.

Edited October 17, 2019 by burr

[NDavis]

5 hours ago, klineka said:

If you are so short of a hitter than you cant reach greens in regulation then you should move up a tee box or two until you are playing from a tee box where a solidly hit drive leaves you with a reasonable approach shot in and gives you a chance for a GIR.

I play in the uk here unfortunately we only have 3 tee positions. 

White for competitions, yellow for normal play and red for ladies (& Sometimes blue for juniors) - I could play off ladies tees I suppose but no body except ladies do over here. 

Btw Quite happy to aim to reach Green in one over in the main (Sometimes do reach in regulation). 

I am an olden who took up golf in last few years so I don't have expectations of increasing my distances much if any. 

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, NDavis said:

I am an olden who took up golf in last few years so I don't have expectations of increasing my distances much if any

You should. Increasing distance isn’t always pinned to more flexibility and strength but simply better body mechanics and synchronization which anyone can improve on.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

You should. Increasing distance isn’t always pinned to more flexibility and strength but simply better body mechanics and synchronization which anyone can improve on.

Older players can also still train for speed alone, too: 

#1 OverSpeed Golf Training System | SuperSpeed Golf

---

Improve your distance with the #1 OverSpeed Training System in Golf. SuperSpeed Golf helps players of all abilities increase their swing speed with short video instruction training protocols. Our system is used by over...

 

[NDavis]

No doubt people are right that I could increase my swing speed & it is not out of my radar. For me my swing is I feel a simple free flowing one that will see my body into the future. 

But I still think that a more realistic aim for myself (& possibly others) to consistently break 90 could be to aim as a minimum to reach the green in regulation + 1. This does not eliminate reaching some in regulation &/ or having a single putt to achieve a Par. 

I do play with some people who find it hard to realise that golf is a handicap game and try to bomb every shot because they think their goal is always to achieve the par for each hole that is given on the scorecard of the course rather than what their handicap/level of play would suggest is the par for a particular hole for their current skill level. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by NDavis

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, NDavis said:

I do play with some people who find it hard to realise that golf is a handicap game and try to bomb every shot because they think their goal is always to achieve the par for each hole

Unless they are bringing in hazards, OB, that is the proper strategy to achieve that goal. Being as close to the hole as possible on each shot without penalty will help greatly in breaking 90. 

 

2 hours ago, NDavis said:

But I still think that a more realistic aim for myself (& possibly others) to consistently break 90 could be to aim as a minimum to reach the green in regulation + 1.

No offense but I think ‘ realistic’ could be replaced with ‘ easier.’ If you think you have the ability to improve your distance then that is the best way to start breaking 90 unless you have a glaring weakness with your short game. Which doesn’t appear to be the your case if you struggle to reach most par fours in regulation due to distance.

[uitar9]

18 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Similarly, the guy who suggested playing a par-5 with four 150-yard shots is guiding you down the wrong path.  At your level, you're almost certain to mess up one of those shots, that's what 20 handicappers do. 

As a 20 I agree. 

I'm 66 and still want to lower that number, bought the book and this winter (starting next week) am going to practice and get a few more yards on my full swing shots.

My short game and putting are not going to get much better or better enough to give me 5 strokes.

Maybe I have drunk the cool-aid , but I have seen that GIR is a way better place to lower my score.

Th alternative is ok-play for GIR +1-and live with 91-95. Its closer to par than 102

 

[RetiredOldMan]

Hi Everyone, 

I have had a really good year. 

Went from shooting in the 100's to the 90's and handicap went from 27 down to 21.2 and trending to 20.8. 

I also had a couple of rounds in the 80's. 

Here is what I did to get where I am today:

1. I started using better balls. Not pricey ones or anything fancy, but balls that felt good when I hit them and played consistently in my drives and controlling my shots. ( Personal preference, I don't like colored balls. I find it to be a distraction and I seem to lose them quite easily.) I have been using Titlest DT Soft, Pro V1, when someone gives me a new one 😄 , and Callaway Soft.) 

2. Started taking time to aim where I was going to hit the ball and thinking about ball placement in the fairway and to the green. (Before, I was satisfied to just being in the fairway.)  

3. When I hit the ball and land in deep rough, take an iron and get back in the fairway, and don't try and hit a fairway wood out of the rough. (Even a rescue wood unless you have a decent lie.) 

What I need to work on:

I have a tendency to pull my irons to the left and I don't know why. (How do I overcome this or approach this problem. It is mainly with my 4 and 5 iron.)

My putting seems to just go right of the cup by a slight amount I don't know if it is my depth perception, my alignment, or what but it makes me miss 2' and 3' putts. (Long putts seem to be more accurate.)

So, some pointers and comments as to how I can consistently shoot in the 80's.

Things that you do to shoot consistently low scores. 

I have had several rounds where I have shot in the 80's, so I know I can do it, I just want to do it consistently. 

Retired Old Man

[gjunkie57]

On 9/28/2019 at 11:02 AM, Bonvivant said:

I was (and still am for entertainment value) quite the GSK fan. I was hitting 4 iron off the tee for a while because I never could hit driver or woods, but instead of doing that forever, I learned to hit them because the advantage of being 60-120 yards on a second shot versus 120-180 yards is so great. Likewise, the split the distance stuff that he talks about to leave full shots into greens is hogwash. Why in the world would I hit 2 120 or 140 yard shots to get to a green, when I can just as easily hit my 4 wood 200 yards and be left with 60ish yards in and play an easy pitch? LSW shows you why this mentality isn't correct. My best score on the short course nearby (5000 yards from the members which i play, par 71 CR 63.0 SR 103) has gone from a 92 to a 78 within a month. It's almost like being close to the hole makes it easier to get there in less shots or something.

One thing that GSK does get completely right is avoiding trouble by not hitting into tight spaces or playing shots you are unfamiliar with. I don't hit flop shots out on the course because I don't know how. I also don't try to clear hazards or play to those distances because it is foolish to do so. So I am not saying, "don't ever lay-up", I am saying "only layup when the risk outweighs the reward of a very simple approach shot". I still say "Take me to Texas!" on most approaches because I value being in the right spot that is safe, as opposed to short siding myself.

I watch GSK just because I like watching him play.  But he is a scratch player so he can get away with hitting three 6 irons on a 540 yd par five.  Me, I have to get max distance on every shot because I know that I will probably mis-hit 1/3 shots.  So his divide and conquer strategy wont work for me.  Fun videos tho. 

[Darkfrog]

First post, my $0.02

I've recently started breaking 90 kind of regularly (about every other round) after almost a year of lessons. Previously I would score 95-115 depending on how lucky I was with ball striking on any given day, and occasionally when the stars aligned I would flirt with sub-90.

My home course is not long so I only need to hit driver 6-7 holes, but it has pretty tight forest-lined fairways with lots of OB/lost ball potential, some sharp doglegs, lots of elevation changes and uneven lies, some intimidating (for me) forced carries, as well as a creek running through the property that is in play on multiple holes to increase the difficulty.

My only course management strategy is to avoid trouble off the tee (lost ball /OB penalties used to kill me) and try to leave myself a full swing into the green from 115-155 yds (GW-8i). Anything shorter than that is a major weak point in my game because I struggle with distance control on full swing SW and LW, and just about any shot that requires a partial swing outside of 30 yards or so (working on it).

But the main things that helped me start breaking 90 (in order of importance) were not related to course management:

• Full swing lessons for about a year now, and frequent practice, including on course. Still have a lot to work on, but I can confidently advance the ball now.
• A single short game lesson and lots of practice. I did not understand fundamental short game techniques and often would take 5-6 strokes to hole out from inside 10 yards (duffed/bladed chips, etc.). I could certainly stand to improve this area, but I'm not a total train wreck now.
• Learning to eliminate mental errors. About 3 months ago my coach told me that I should be capable of sub-90 scores based on her assessment of my abilities, and that some of my trouble could be mental mistakes that were costing me. I used to make a lot of mental errors like getting sloppy/rushed with setup, mentally checking out on a hole after a bad shot, etc. I still do make some, but I manage the mental elements of the game better now. The main mental mistake that I have learned to correct: If I feel uncomfortable over the ball, I used to just swing and hope for the best. Now I step away and restart my routine until I feel good about the shot I'm going to hit.

[NDavis]

8 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Unless they are bringing in hazards, OB, that is the proper strategy to achieve that goal. Being as close to the hole as possible on each shot without penalty will help greatly in breaking 90. 

 

No offense but I think ‘ realistic’ could be replaced with ‘ easier.’ If you think you have the ability to improve your distance then that is the best way to start breaking 90 unless you have a glaring weakness with your short game. Which doesn’t appear to be the your case if you struggle to reach most par fours in regulation due to distance.

I will accept "easier" for many but for me both more realistic & easier!  + Why make things more difficult than they need be? 

Edited October 18, 2019 by NDavis
Added + bit

[Vinsk]

24 minutes ago, NDavis said:

I will accept "easier" for many but for me both more realistic & easier!  + Why make things more difficult than they need be? 

 

Lol. Well if you don’t want to reach your potential then you’re exactly right. So If by realistic you mean what you’re willing to work on, then yes. And I’m not knocking that at all. I personally have never taken up a sport with the goal to be as mediocre as possible but I’ve known those who are happy to just play regardless of how they do. 

[jlbos83]

I break 90 now and then, and I think I am starting to notice the commonalities.

1. Don't go OB.  Just don't.  If it's a reasonable likelihood, think about club choice.  I often play a 310 yard hole with OB all the way down the right, and it's the first hole.  It's also a little downhill.  A bad 5 wood gets me within a 9 iron or less, a good one a sand wedge, or even lob wedge.  I don't need driver on that hole.  Without the OB, I think I'd play driver, but first tee, there's just no real benefit.

2.  When driver is the club, hit it.  Closer is better.  But see #1.

3.  Get out of the sand in one.  To anywhere.  Green is better, out is critical.

4.  If I'm within 10 feet of the green, I need to be thinking up and down.  Won't always happen, but those are important shots.  And where I get a lot of my pars, "almost" GIRs.

5.  I agree with not trying the hero shot, but not wimping out, either.  Know what you can do, and go for it.

6.  Three putts are bad, but don't beat yourself up over a three putt from 50 feet.  (Actually don't beat yourself up over anything, let it go, and move on.)

7.  I have found in my best rounds, I block out a lot of the noise.  Take a breath before each shot.  Focus.  Not every second, but in the time around the shots.

8.  If something feels wrong, back off.  The grass grabs on the backswing, stop!  It should not happen a lot, but once your head is unhappy, bad things are in store.

9.  Be aggressive, but not stupid.  If you can carry 220 on your best shot, and you need 210, don't do it.  I think you need to have a 80 or maybe even 90 percent probability of success.  The two shots that failure is likely to cause eat into your margin pretty quickly.

 

 

 

[DrvFrShow]

On 9/4/2019 at 6:02 AM, David in FL said:

You don’t need course management to break 90.  You just need reasonable, full-swing ball-striking.  

And a good shot out from under trees. 

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, jlbos83 said:

Without the OB, I think I'd play driver, but first tee, there's just no real benefit

So what’s to the left? If the hole is only 310yds imagine hitting a diver 230yds just not OB. 80yd shot...probably a pretty easy par yes?