Bryson DeChambeau - Oy

[Bonvivant]

@ShawnSum, I think that is pretty exaggerated. I'd bet the most of the guys that have been grouped with BDC these last 4 weeks are contemplating distance chasing, even if they aren't admitting it to the public. Pretty tough/wearing watching a guy hitting 3 clubs less, watching them struggle with short pitch shots, and still blowing your score away.

[billchao]

25 minutes ago, ShawnSum said:

I don't think we go anywhere with the debate. It's ONE (very unique) guy doing something that I would wager the rest of the PGA Tour have absolutely ZERO interest in doing/maintaining. Who else is going to work as hard as Bryson has in the gym? Who else is going to force feed themselves 6-8 times a day to hit the high caloric intake needed to maintain the amount of mass he's put on? Who else has the IQ to even do what he's doing? 

I'm just not buying into this whole "BrYsOn iS cHaNgInG" how golf will be played thing. I'm in the camp of thinking that Bryson will go down in golf history as being a very unique and determined individual who played the game how he wanted.

I disagree. I’ll go on the record now and say he’s changing people’s perceptions of what the ideal golf body is (in fact I might have already said/wrote this). If nothing changes on the PGA Tour to reduce the viability of this strategy, in 10-20 years you’re going to see bigger, bulkier guys become the norm on tour, much like Tiger’s success inspired a generation of golfers to work out and hit the ball far with lean muscle.

Tiger, remember, had his share of critics for approaching fitness in golf different than the norm. The media and some others commenting on this seem to make it out to be a novelty, like Bryson is a circus act because he’s quirky, but I bet there are coaches out there quietly taking notes right now.

[Bonvivant]

I wish I was as eloquent as you, @billchao. There is no way other pros/pro coaches aren't taking notice of this.

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Again they need to measure his actual accuracy at hitting the sweet spot. Maybe there needs to be a discussion on what should be the sweet spot. We are just giving him credit with out any evidence that maybe some of this is from technology. I would like this looked at more.

There was a Trackman on one of his drives this week. Smash factor was only 1.40 and the drive went over 350. He missed the fairway but was WAAAY close to the green.

[ShawnSum]

1 hour ago, Bonvivant said:

@ShawnSum, I think that is pretty exaggerated. I'd bet the most of the guys that have been grouped with BDC these last 4 weeks are contemplating distance chasing, even if they aren't admitting it to the public. Pretty tough/wearing watching a guy hitting 3 clubs less, watching them struggle with short pitch shots, and still blowing your score away.

I think it's realistic, not exaggerated. We already know other players out there are impressed by what he's doing but I'm not buying it that they are gonna all go off and chase distance in the way that Bryson is. We might see some guys like Molinari/Fowler make some swing changes to hit it a bit further but I'll go on the record right now saying you ain't gonna see no one else put in the work that Bryson has, no one else is going to transform their body to handle them swinging literally as hard as they possible can. It's too risky and most people don't have the drive that Bryson does.

38 minutes ago, billchao said:

I disagree. I’ll go on the record now and say he’s changing people’s perceptions of what the ideal golf body is (in fact I might have already said/wrote this). If nothing changes on the PGA Tour to reduce the viability of this strategy, in 10-20 years you’re going to see bigger, bulkier guys become the norm on tour, much like Tiger’s success inspired a generation of golfers to work out and hit the ball far with lean muscle.

Tiger, remember, had his share of critics for approaching fitness in golf different than the norm. The media and some others commenting on this seem to make it out to be a novelty, like Bryson is a circus act because he’s quirky, but I bet there are coaches out there quietly taking notes right now.

Disagree. We've already had people such as Rory come out and say that they feel their best when they are "lighter". 10-20 years down the road we are absolutely NOT going to see the average weight on tour being 240lbs of lean-ish muscle mass and everyone swinging out of their shoes.

We'll see how the rest of the year goes but I really don't see junior coaches convincing kids parents that because ONE dude on Tour (who by the way literally plays the game differently than anyone else) is the blueprint to follow and they have to start gaining mass now and eating 6-8k calories a day to get a Division 1 scholorship. Too much for me...way too much.

[Vinsk]

Any golfer who maintains his tour card has enormous talent. So many ways to improve and/or develop excellent consistency. BDC’s regimen isn’t attainable for many, many humans much less Tour players alone. Not just any tour player can pack on muscle the way he has and develop his speed. Coaches may be watching and taking notes...but only a select player will be able to pursue this. I don’t care how many protein shakes or gym hours Chesson Hadley ( sp?) logs...he’s not gonna be able to achieve what BDC has.

[Double Mocha Man]

If things don't work out for Bryson he could always play linebacker for the Seahawks.  Otherwise, yes, he is setting a new standard for physique and strength.  Somewhere, right now, there is a dad prepping their 10 year old kid to be even better, bigger, stronger than Mr. DeChambeau.

[gjunkie57]

BDC needs to get his wedge game together.  Hitting that close to the green means alot of in between distance shots.  Once he gets that figured out I see him winning some majors soon.  
 

[colin007]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Again they need to measure his actual accuracy at hitting the sweet spot. Maybe there needs to be a discussion on what should be the sweet spot. We are just giving him credit with out any evidence that maybe some of this is from technology. I would like this looked at more. 

 I compared his swing speed to his ball speed on a couple of drives the other week and on a few holes it wasn't stellar, like 1.43ish.

45 minutes ago, gjunkie57 said:

BDC needs to get his wedge game together.  Hitting that close to the green means alot of in between distance shots.  Once he gets that figured out I see him winning some majors soon.  
 

I think his wedges are too long. He looks awkward with them at that length

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

I wish I was as eloquent as you, @billchao.

Thanks. I don't feel like I'm any more eloquent than anyone else. I just try to articulate my thoughts as completely as possible and honestly it just ends up looking like a bunch of run-on sentences at times.

1 hour ago, ShawnSum said:

We've already had people such as Rory come out and say that they feel their best when they are "lighter".

I'm not talking about current tour players. Tiger's peers didn't go and change their workout routines just because he had success with it. Most people are going to stick with what made them successful in the past. What changed was the following generation of players' mindset on overall fitness and the style of the game.

1 hour ago, ShawnSum said:

10-20 years down the road we are absolutely NOT going to see the average weight on tour being 240lbs of lean-ish muscle mass

I don't think the average weight on tour will be 240, either, and Bryson isn't what I would consider lean. He looks to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-18% body fat, which is perfectly fine, just not lean.

I see players in the future getting bigger, more like baseball players. PGA Tour golfers are lean without a huge amount of muscle mass, but a lot of that is due to the traditional thought that large muscles somehow impede the golf swing IMO. I can see that changing as that myth continues to get dispelled. Look at Jon Rahm or Brooks Koepka. Those are not your typical golfer builds.

2 hours ago, ShawnSum said:

and everyone swinging out of their shoes.

Plenty of guys of all sizes doing that now already. That's more of a philosophical change to approaching the game.

2 hours ago, ShawnSum said:

We'll see how the rest of the year goes but I really don't see junior coaches convincing kids parents that because ONE dude on Tour (who by the way literally plays the game differently than anyone else) is the blueprint to follow and they have to start gaining mass now and eating 6-8k calories a day to get a Division 1 scholorship. Too much for me...way too much.

You're kind of missing the point, I think. It's not simply about eating more, it's about a different approach to working out and the advantages of having more muscle mass.

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

Any golfer who maintains his tour card has enormous talent. So many ways to improve and/or develop excellent consistency. BDC’s regimen isn’t attainable for many, many humans much less Tour players alone. Not just any tour player can pack on muscle the way he has and develop his speed. Coaches may be watching and taking notes...but only a select player will be able to pursue this. I don’t care how many protein shakes or gym hours Chesson Hadley ( sp?) logs...he’s not gonna be able to achieve what BDC has.

I don't think it's about any current player trying to do what Bryson does. I think it's more about the future players developing being able to see that putting on more muscle is an advantage in the game. You get enough people to change the way they approach fitness as it relates to golf and you'll end up with a bigger group of high level golfers who are bigger athletes.

[klineka]

1 hour ago, gjunkie57 said:

BDC needs to get his wedge game together.  Hitting that close to the green means alot of in between distance shots.  Once he gets that figured out I see him winning some majors soon.  
 

I think he can/will win majors even if he doesn't become an elite wedge player.

 It's not like his wedge game is horrible, he's middle of the road right now, in terms of proximity he is T102 from 50-125 yards from the fairway and 79th from 50-125 from the rough

[billchao]

To put it in alternative terms, I see ball speeds in excess of 190 mph becoming more common on the PGA Tour in the future. It's going to be easier for more people to achieve that by being a bigger, stronger athlete than being a freak of nature.

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

don't think it's about any current player trying to do what Bryson does. I think it's more about the future players developing being able to see that putting on more muscle is an advantage in the game

Right. But my point is not everyone can do this. It’s not just a choice. In an exaggerated extrapolation...many players would simply struggle to make it on tour if in fact big and strong became the norm to succeed. 

[MiuraMan]

28 minutes ago, colin007 said:

 I compared his swing speed to his ball speed on a couple of drives the other week and on a few holes it wasn't stellar, like 1.43ish.

I think his wedges are too long. He looks awkward with them at that length

Actually a smash factor of 1.43 is pretty stellar; the "theoretical max is not quite 1.5". You can read about the physics of smash factor, if so inclined,  here: 

Smash Factor - Myths and Facts

---

If you watch golf on TV or read the golfing magazines, you have heard a lot about "smash factor". If you learn about it from those venues, you get some facts and a lot of half-truths. Let's clear up the confusion about smash factor.

 

[billchao]

1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

Right. But my point is not everyone can do this. It’s not just a choice. In an exaggerated extrapolation.

Again, I'm not saying people are going to go the extreme route like Bryson does, only that people will stop seeing size as a detriment to the golf swing and hit the weights more.

3 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

many players would simply struggle to make it on tour if in fact big and strong became the norm to succeed. 

It would simply be the evolution of the sport. Big and strong tends to be the norm to succeed in most other sports. Even if I had world class talent, I'd struggle in the NHL at 5'9, 150. The days where a PGA Tour golfer could be a multiple major winner averaging 265 off the tee are gone. One day a guy averaging 285 will be considered a short hitter.

[Bonvivant]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

One day a guy averaging 285 will be considered a short hitter.

Aren't they already 😉

[Double Mocha Man]

Tall and skinny used to be the norm in the NBA.  Now you have the LeBrons who have muscle-enriched shoulders, arms, chest, legs.  It's a matter of keeping up with the Jones'es or fall behind.  There's no going back.  Could soon be the case with pro golf.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

I think this is pretty interesting. I think that it is going to shift from "modern equipment makes the ball go too far" to "I don't like Bryson, he is ruining the game!"

I wouldn't be surprised if his worst finish the rest of the year is still in the top 15.

I’d take that bet.

[Bonvivant]

44 minutes ago, iacas said:

I’d take that bet.

There's a reason I didn't mention anything about a bet. He has to stay healthy and keep his wits about him, but as of now, he just looks too dang good every week.