LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Friz]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

I wonder if these changes have the ‘7 defectors’ to be announced after the FEC some second thoughts?

I bet they've already signed contracts, if they're putting such a definitive number out there, they need to be certain it won't go down.

 

As for letting guys back in, I personally don't want them back and neither should the Tour.  I would accept a one time offer to buy their way back in for 100% of all the money they have earned from LIV...good will goes both ways right?  The message that should be sent is that no one is above the rules, doesn't matter if you're second in the world or 200th, rules apply to everyone the same.

[dennyjones]

2 hours ago, turtleback said:

I'd be in favor of letting LIV players back.  On the condition that they pay a fine to the PGAT in the amount of any sign on bonus they received from LIV plus 50% of their cumulative winnings in LIV events.

The Saudis behead infidels for much less.

[Aguirre]

On 8/25/2022 at 7:39 AM, Dinglegolf said:

Hi there, new poster who was looking for some interesting insights into this topic.

I agree with the majority about the obvious intentions of LIV golf and do not have anything to add.  I am interested though about the dynamics/business end of the PGA Tour in a vacuum and the suggested changes being put forth.  

I personally only make an effort to watch the majors and the Ryder Cup while spending a lot of time on many other tournaments when surfing on a Sunday afternoon.  Personally, the WGC events and the Fedex Cup do nothing for me as a viewer as I am an old school "sports" enthusiast who appreciates uncompromised competition.  

I found the comment by Rory that "the top players do not get together enough" interesting as it is basically saying "the top players do have to get together as much given how much money we make".  I have no issue with players wanting more money and leveraging their star power to do so and do not care to see things as "growing the game" or not. 

I am interested on people's thoughts as to whether the proposed changes are really good for the PGA Tour business-wise. 

Cheers

I'm unlikely to tune in more to the new events. I still can't be bothered to care about the "playoffs" anymore than I am a good tournament like The Memorial. My sports calendar is full. Just because we have something closer to 20 premier events on tour on par with The Memorial does not mean my viewership is going up a tick. It's all convenience and time for me. My viewing may go up in July & August, because the sports calendar is dead. That's it. 

So I doubt these changes will make any significant difference. Of course, this also means that LIV won't do any better, either. It's the majors. Everything else is for scraps and is local.

[iacas]

The only one that really matters: Cam Smith. And he matters, but also… don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Bucki1968]

HV3 is leaving? Wow. I wonder if Michael Jordan is okay with that? I think I would have gotten his okay first. 😃 Oh...and as stated earlier, don't the door hit you in ass on the way out. 

[DeadMan]

I think Niemann matters a little bit, too. He's 23 and won twice on the PGA Tour. He doesn't fit the profile of the others moving to LIV. That said, he hasn't done anything notable in majors, and I doubt the average fan really cares that much about him.

But, for all the smoke about players moving over the past couple of weeks, to only get Niemann isn't great for LIV. Cam Smith is definitely a big get, but we've known he's moving since the British Open. But the other names? Meh. Cameron Tringale? Nobody cares. Marc Leishman? I liked him, but not a big loss. Anirban Lahiri? Meh.

[jmanbooyaa]

And the participation award league keeps moving forward. All about the money. There is no other explanation. Just be honest about it. 

[Shindig]

I will miss HV3.  I liked him.  

[70sSanO]

I would have to guess that if the field remains at 48, playing less golf events will hold true for many players.

Maybe a Suez Ferry Tour in the making.  A lot on bunkers.

John

[MSDOGS1976]

Hope the money is worth it because they're simply stooges for a rogue regime. 

[Sandy Lie]

So this is a reach, but here goes.  Americans and probably most people are hypocrites.

We gas up our cars and whine about the price of gas that we get from the Saudi’s (and other countries). Most of you know that petroleum is used in other products. Petroleum products are fuels made from crude oil and hydrocarbons contained in natural gas.
So plastics are made from petroleum as is asphalt, the list goes on. Look around your house, your workplace, your golf equipment😁

How many Yankee fans are out there?  You either love them or hate them. But let’s face it they have been the best team money can buy for years.  So what’s the difference between LIV and the PGA Tour?

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

Do the Saudis have problems, you bet! How they treat women for instance, human rights, etc. Not a good track record, but we still buy products that are petroleum based. Click here: https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

 

[jmanbooyaa]

I get the money. Cam Smith made $28 million over 8 years. He was just given $100 million. Fine take the cash, but make it clear that is the reason. I still don’t think professional athletes are worth these prices but that is just how i feel. I simply do not enjoy the product Liv puts out. I tried watching 2 separate events and did not care for it. 

[Sandy Lie]

21 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

I get the money. Cam Smith made $28 million over 8 years. He was just given $100 million. Fine take the cash, but make it clear that is the reason. I still don’t think professional athletes are worth these prices but that is just how i feel. I simply do not enjoy the product Liv puts out. I tried watching 2 separate events and did not care for it. 

I don’t like the format. Haven’t watched any of the events. I think as they get more players the format will change.  But I’m not going out of my way to watch it.

[iacas]

58 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

So this is a reach, but here goes.  Americans and probably most people are hypocrites.

We gas up our cars and whine about the price of gas that we get from the Saudi’s (and other countries). Most of you know that petroleum is used in other products. Petroleum products are fuels made from crude oil and hydrocarbons contained in natural gas.
So plastics are made from petroleum as is asphalt, the list goes on. Look around your house, your workplace, your golf equipment😁

How many Yankee fans are out there?  You either love them or hate them. But let’s face it they have been the best team money can buy for years.  So what’s the difference between LIV and the PGA Tour?

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

Do the Saudis have problems, you bet! How they treat women for instance, human rights, etc. Not a good track record, but we still buy products that are petroleum based. Click here: https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

Buying gas does not rise to the level of “hypocrite.” No.

[Sandy Lie]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

Buying gas does not rise to the level of “hypocrite.” No.

Disagree.

[Moxley]

1 hour ago, Sandy Lie said:

So this is a reach, but here goes.  Americans and probably most people are hypocrites.

We gas up our cars and whine about the price of gas that we get from the Saudi’s (and other countries). Most of you know that petroleum is used in other products. Petroleum products are fuels made from crude oil and hydrocarbons contained in natural gas.
So plastics are made from petroleum as is asphalt, the list goes on. Look around your house, your workplace, your golf equipment😁

How many Yankee fans are out there?  You either love them or hate them. But let’s face it they have been the best team money can buy for years.  So what’s the difference between LIV and the PGA Tour?

The PGA has control over several tour in several countries. Are they a monopoly? I would say yes. So when a competitor comes along they get upset.

Do the Saudis have problems, you bet! How they treat women for instance, human rights, etc. Not a good track record, but we still buy products that are petroleum based. Click here: https://innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

I’m not saying look the other way, but competition breads change. Some are afraid of it. Some embrace it. I’ll go out on a limb and say in several years this won’t matter. Another level of competition will be born from this. Or maybe it just goes away.

I’m sure we won’t agree, and  I’m not trying to convince anyone that LIV is bad or good. But it’s here, players are jumping for money and other reasons. Condemning them doesn’t change anything. Am I disappointed? Mostly yes. Maybe it’s not a Gentleman’s game anymore.

 

Overall I agree, and petroleum products is only part of it. Our own sport was already taking Saudi money via sponsorship and holding tournaments in countries with similarly bad human rights issues before LIV. 

Sure, you can make a distinction and say that the pure Saudi product is worse than the watered down product if you like, but the reality is that it's a lot more blurred than many people will admit.

 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Moxley

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

Disagree.

Okay. Cool.

Do we have much of a choice? Plus some gas comes from the US or elsewhere.

They’re not the same.

[Moxley]

6 hours ago, iacas said:

The only one that really matters: Cam Smith. And he matters, but also… don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out.

I think this is a really good haul from Liv's perspective, and a moderately damaging one from the PGAs. 

Smith is obviously huge , everyone acknowledges that, but Niemann is big too given that his best days are very likely ahead of him. 

 

Leishman and Lahiri, though not huge names, add to the haul of players from outside Europe/USA where LIV could really become dominant.