Jump to content

Recommended Posts

19 minutes ago, RFKFREAK said:

Ahh.  Learn something new every day.  

LIV=54. Isn’t that what the players from LIV were over par combined at the US OPEN? 🤣

  • Funny 3

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Can someone explain to me how LIV Tour and PGAT can coexist? 
 

It seems to me that if enough of the better/more popular players play on LIV Tour, the PGAT has no product to sell to sponsors or to venues.  Is FedEx, Buick, etc. going to shell out huge dollars to sponsor the weekly “Barbarsol Open”.  Are the networks going to want to carry events with the “okay” players? Golf is a niche sport, with low ratings as it is, how does it survive.

On the other side of the coin, where does the LIV Tour get future players 10 years down the road? With, at best, a hugely diminished PGAT, from where do the new 48 players come from? And without the significant tv exposure and money that the PGAT provides, who is going to are about the LIV Tour when no one but the most hard core fans know who they are, and that applies to the majors as well.

Maybe the Saudis can buy the PGAT and European Tour and with their infinite wealth use them as feeder tours, like the current Korn Ferry Tour?

  • Like 2

Driver - Callaway Razr

3-wood - TM Stealth

7-wood - Titleist 

Irons - 5 through PW, Epon 503

Vokey Wedges

Putter - Odyssey TriHot 2

 


3 hours ago, hunterdog said:

Can someone explain to me how LIV Tour and PGAT can coexist? 
 

It seems to me that if enough of the better/more popular players play on LIV Tour, the PGAT has no product to sell to sponsors or to venues.  Is FedEx, Buick, etc. going to shell out huge dollars to sponsor the weekly “Barbarsol Open”.  Are the networks going to want to carry events with the “okay” players? Golf is a niche sport, with low ratings as it is, how does it survive.

On the other side of the coin, where does the LIV Tour get future players 10 years down the road? With, at best, a hugely diminished PGAT, from where do the new 48 players come from? And without the significant tv exposure and money that the PGAT provides, who is going to are about the LIV Tour when no one but the most hard core fans know who they are, and that applies to the majors as well.

Maybe the Saudis can buy the PGAT and European Tour and with their infinite wealth use them as feeder tours, like the current Korn Ferry Tour?

For starters, there are more than 48 really good and popular players.  They aren't all in the "we use only one name for them" category like Sergio, Phil, Tiger, Rory, or Vijay, but there are plenty who are popular, and more showing up all the time (and as of current, three of those five aren't on LIV and I don't think will be).  Look at how many people became a fan of Mito Periera a month ago -- now, he's not Tiger popular, but there are a lot of people who would like to see him succeed further.  

Next, some players are more interested in the established history.   Even though the Tour has evolved in management and the like, it's still a clear descendant of that which was played by Hogan and Nelson.  That means something to some top players. 

There's also the domestic convenience.  The LIV is international and that's a lot of travel, and it seems they're expecting every player to play every event.  The PGA Tour is primarily within three time zones (Korn Ferry has a few more), with rare events overseas.  That also helps curate an audience -- think about how much easier it is to watch the US Open or the Masters than the British.  I'm in awe of the dedication of some sports fans overseas who are able to watch the Masters or Super Bowl or the like live.  I barely have that dedication when my two favorite sports have an occasional event in England.

It also isn't like stars are one-time things.  Sure, someone like the single-name players are few in a generation, but how many big names are you rooting for that you hadn't heard of three years ago?  I don't think I knew who Xander was five years ago, now he's one of my favorite players.  I didn't know who Will Zalatoris was three years ago, I'm rooting for him, too.

  • Like 1

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

 

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

How do they have time?  I thought they all wanted more time with their family....

So far sounds like this is a one tournament decision....TBD what happens after next week

7e4c2b93da6b7aa736a2dd64fceae5f2

Players who played in the inaugural LIV Golf Invitational Series event in London will be allowed to tee it...

 

 

Edited by Friz

-Eric

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 6/18/2022 at 12:18 PM, iacas said:

 

 

Not surprising. Euros don't care about the Saudi problem. 9/11 didn't happen on their soil. They already have a bunch of Saudi money in Euro sports, including Euro Tour golf. 

On 6/17/2022 at 2:22 PM, Friz said:

And these poor guys left the PGA Tour because they didn't have the flexibility they wanted and the 15 event minimum was too much....and no other more selfish reason

 

Funny thing is the 15-event minimum on the PGA Tour includes the majors and the Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup. So in reality it's a 10-event minimum for regular Tour events if you are good enough to make the "Cup" teams.

So they are looking at a heavier schedule with the Saudi league. And make no mistake, the Saudis own them with these large guaranteed contracts. 5 years down the road, they could amp up the Saudi league schedule to 40 events and force these guys to play every week. If a player quits, what is to stop the Saudis from attacking them or their family? It's a government that answers to NOBODY.  


1 hour ago, Dr. Manhattan said:

 

Not surprising. Euros don't care about the Saudi problem. 9/11 didn't happen on their soil. They already have a bunch of Saudi money in Euro sports, including Euro Tour golf. 

 

Funny thing is the 15-event minimum on the PGA Tour includes the majors and the Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup. So in reality it's a 10-event minimum for regular Tour events if you are good enough to make the "Cup" teams.

So they are looking at a heavier schedule with the Saudi league. And make no mistake, the Saudis own them with these large guaranteed contracts. 5 years down the road, they could amp up the Saudi league schedule to 40 events and force these guys to play every week. If a player quits, what is to stop the Saudis from attacking them or their family? It's a government that answers to NOBODY.  

Yeah I didn’t understand the ‘ more time with my family’ stuff some of the guys were saying. 

  • Funny 1

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

Yeah I didn’t understand the ‘ more time with my family’ stuff some of the guys were saying. 

 

It sounds like a decent excuse at the moment, but that will change when the LIV Tour goes to 14 events plus 4 majors. It will change even more if the Saudi government pulls a Darth Vader (to Lando Calrissian) and changes the season from 14 events to 30 events or 40 events or even 50 events.

Saudi government owns these players, whether the players realize it or not. Mickelson said it months ago: "Scary dudes to get involved with." There is no punishment for the Saudi government if they decide to abuse the players in some way, whether it's a 50-week schedule or refusing to pay them or whatever. 

  • Like 1

Just now, Dr. Manhattan said:

It sounds like a decent excuse at the moment,

Yeah, it's definitely just their bullshit message to the media/public, that maybe casual fans will buy into. I know professional sports is demanding, but I am pretty sure these players have the means to see their families (or future families, in Bryson's case) as much as they want. I suspect most of these LIV player's families are just fine, and some of the bigger names were already financial secure for multiple generations/lifetimes. I think the closest we'll get to "I joined LIV because I am a selfish, greedy twat" is Bryson's "business decision" statement.

15 minutes ago, Dr. Manhattan said:

Saudi government owns these players

In spite of how terrible the Saudi regime is, I assume the relationship between the LIV Tour and its players is bound by contracts, which I hope the players, or at least their agents understand. I doubt the Saudi regime would murder a LIV Tour player or a family member if one of them decided to back out (that would certainly discourage others from joining), and I am sure the contracts have details that would cover these sort of situations. But then again, it is a totalitarian regime, and like Phil said, "scary motherf***ers".

I still have not come to understand how the LIV Tour is growing the game, or "doing good through golf". Are they investing money in golf programs for disadvantaged youth, or in areas of the world without access to the game? Are they giving to charities to help lift people out of poverty or effect social change? Are they using golf to improve the lives of marginalized people/communities? Are past-their-prime, rich, golfers playing in 54 hole semi-exhibition matches supposed to inspire more casual golf/sports fans to invest themselves into the game of golf? I'm surprised that I haven't heard more about this considering how often I hear talk about of grow the game/do good through golf.

-Peter

  • :titleist: TSR2
  • :callaway: Paradym, 4W
  • :pxg: GEN4 0317X, Hybrid
  • :srixon: ZX 3-iron, ZX5 4-AW
  • :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
  • L.A.B. Golf Directed Force 2.1
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

23 minutes ago, Dr. Manhattan said:

Saudi government owns these players, whether the players realize it or not. Mickelson said it months ago: "Scary dudes to get involved with." There is no punishment for the Saudi government if they decide to abuse the players in some way, whether it's a 50-week schedule or refusing to pay them or whatever. 

A picture from the 18th "green" at the 2024 Najran Classic brought to you by Saudi Telecom Company.

 On Some Courses, Sprinklers Are Unnecessary, and Everyone Aims for the Sand  - The New York Times

  • Funny 4
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

15 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

I think the closest we'll get to "I joined LIV because I am a selfish, greedy twat" is Bryson's "business decision" statement.

I miss the good old days when an athlete making a "business decision" involved not catching a ball.  The one I'm thinking of, I can't remember his name, a former Bucs' CB who was playing with, I think, the Chiefs and didn't make an interception late in the season (batted the ball down instead), knowing he'd get hit if he came down with the ball and had already made up his mind he was done playing professionally.   That was much more admirable than Bryson's business decision.

13 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

A picture from the 18th "green" at the 2024 Najran Classic brought to you by Saudi Telecom Company.

 On Some Courses, Sprinklers Are Unnecessary, and Everyone Aims for the Sand  - The New York Times

Oh, that's what sand greens are. ;-) 

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Has it been stated anywhere that these guys are REQUIRED to play all events?  LIV has talked about the fields changing, and has made a pretty big public image stance of how golfers should be allowed to play "when they want, where they want."  If they ever forced someone to play an event they didn't want, all of that comes crashing down.

The teams thing, as pointless as it currently is, only starts to make sense if there is some consistency in fields and teams could stay the same across an entire season, so I could understand if thats what they're trying to get to, but I'd still be pretty shocked, even thinking the worst about LIV, if guys were forced to play in events against their will.

 

All that said, the whole lie about guys going over there to have a "more flexible schedule" and "more time with their families"....the PGA Tour is pretty cushy for guys at the top.  There are over 40 weeks a year that tournaments are being held, they can already choose just about any schedule they want.  Unless its getting into summer and you're concerned about making the top 125, there are nearly no requirements for playing when you don't want.

-Eric

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

While there is some sport washing, I think the real motivation is to control a major sport, and make money from it.

There are probably only a couple major individual sports and golf is the most prestigious.

Owning the league and negotiating with individuals, not player’s associations and team owners, makes it easier to establish the “golden rule”.

There is no way any of the players are in jeopardy of any violence, especially at the point, but the players are owned, in a sense, by the Saudis.

But this is their moment to establish their tour, and in the near future, they will do what it takes for it to succeed.  There is no way of knowing if it will, but it is not a charity organizations trying to establish peace on earth and goodwill to men.  This is ultimately a business venture for them.

John

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

But the PGA Tour does have an ace to play if and when it needs to… Tiger Woods.

LIV might chip away at the European Tour, but if Tiger becomes commissioner of the PGA Tour one day, it might be tough as an American player to have the Big Cat breathing down your neck.

There will be interesting times ahead.

John

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

9 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

But the PGA Tour does have an ace to play if and when it needs to… Tiger Woods.

LIV might chip away at the European Tour, but if Tiger becomes commissioner of the PGA Tour one day, it might be tough as an American player to have the Big Cat breathing down your neck.

There will be interesting times ahead.

John

 

Tiger will not want to spend his time doing that. He has a million other things to worry about in his life. 


  • Administrator
7 hours ago, Dr. Manhattan said:

Funny thing is the 15-event minimum on the PGA Tour includes the majors and the Ryder Cup or Presidents Cup. So in reality it's a 10-event minimum for regular Tour events if you are good enough to make the "Cup" teams.

They probably don't get to play the Cups if they are on LIV, and they may not be able to play many majors unless the OWGR stuff holds up.

4 hours ago, Friz said:

Has it been stated anywhere that these guys are REQUIRED to play all events?

I think that's understood for the contracted players. Not all of them — the fill-ins toward the bottom of the list — are going to be replaced.

4 hours ago, Friz said:

If they ever forced someone to play an event they didn't want, all of that comes crashing down.

I don't think they're worried about that.

4 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

While there is some sport washing, I think the real motivation is to control a major sport, and make money from it.

What makes you think that? I don't think so.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Just a few of my current thoughts…

I didn’t really enjoy the streaming of the first LIV match.  That ping and pop up every time they showed a new player was pretty annoying.  Beyond the initial curiosity, at this point I think I’ll enjoy watching the PGA and LPGA more.

 I do get the appeal of LIV for a lot of the guys.  A lot of them (not all of them) are starting to fade out and it’s one of their last opportunities for a big pay day in their profession.  And I get it for some of the younger dudes as well who don’t have much of a shot at making much money on the PGA tour (e.g. the Koepka brother).  DJ is the one I don’t get… but it’s his call, not mine.

I don’t expect that LIV will really hurt the PGA tour much.  The guys who have that drive to be the best in the world will want to make the PGA tour and share the history of Hagen, Hogan, Palmer, Nicklaus, Tiger (including quite a few others).  You can’t be the best if you don’t play against and beat the best.

One narrative I saw that was annoying were the people asking “how is this good for the game?”, “how will this grow the game?”.  Well, from a business perspective, I expect LIV will grow the game.  The more people are exposed to the game of golf, regardless of the league… the more equipment, tee times, clothing, lessons, etc. will be sold.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Just an FYI, this has been tried by nearly every major sport at one time or another. Its surprisingly difficult and expensive for the sport to deal with.  I'm not sure that is necessarily a problem. Within a short driver of where I live there are tons of lesser events, semi-pro, corn-ferry, even college or high-school events I can and have taken my son and daughter to, in order to help them catch a bug for the game. We've all had a great time attending them. Plus we could leave early and not feel bad when the 10-year-old attention span starts to wain. ... although unfortunately no bugs for the game have been caught so far. 😢   As a consumer you could always refuse to buy from stubhub, etc.... If everyone did that it would put the secondary sellers out of business.  I say that as a complete hypocrite, as I have used stubhub more than once to get tickets to events. I paid over face value for the tickets but not that much over face value. Plus, Stubhub actually had fewer added fees than did the original seller, which narrowed the gap between what I paid and what I would have paid from original seller. (I assume the original seller waives such fees for the likes of Stubhub) 
    • If this is off topic, feel free to delete this post, but for reference the NCAA and the Olympic Movement policies can be found here:  Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy Transgender Student-Athlete Participation Policy Updated May 2024  
    • That's not relevant. If they wanted to sell 50k tickets, they still managed to do that. The tickets will get used, so that's as "widespread" as they wanted. Dropping the price to still sell the same number of tickets would be dumb. Again, it's not like the tickets won't get used, and the way to reduce the # of tickets on stubhub, etc. is to price them where secondary ticket resellers don't see a lot of value. If the tickets were $1M, no secondary ticket resellers would buy it. If they were $1, they'd buy as many as they could. That's an order of magnitude more complicated. And, again, if you price them appropriately, you can sell out while minimizing the value seen by secondary ticket resellers, while keeping it simple. Stuff like that sounds good until you scratch a few atoms off the top. Scratch a few atoms off the top man.
    • This may well be the only time I get a math problem correct. Ha.... After all I went to Ch!cago PubIic SchooIs. 😜
    • Totally agree with this new policy. Should be applied to every sport in general, most of all in contact sports were woman are getting seriously insured like  boxing.. mma.. etc.  
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...