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40 minutes ago, Braivo said:

By July 4 everyone should have received two doses if they wanted to.

This is if everything goes perfectly. Odds of that? Probably not 100%.

34 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The message should be that we open as soon as the data indicates that its prudent.

Bingo. Setting arbitrary dates you may or may not hit is dumb.

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Bingo. Setting arbitrary dates you may or may not hit is dumb.

Remember "two weeks to slow the spread"? They've been changing the deadline constantly for a year. The metrics for reopening keep changing. There's no clear "finish line" out there for any agency. They won't even say "once cases get below X threshold we can reopen." 

Maybe a specific date isn't ideal to promise, but I'd like to see more metrics like "Once cases are below 50 per million we can fully reopen" or something like that. This feels endless right now because they keep changing the goal. 

My kids are back on virtual school again. Two months ago they said that once teachers were vaccinated that we'd stay open in person for good. Well the teachers are vaccinated and we just shut down for a few asymptomatic cases amongst students. They changed the rules in two months. Never ends. Back and forth. Brutal on kids. 

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Just me I guess, but I'm relatively comfortable with the targets being set, as those that have been set so far in 2021 have been exceeded.

Used properly, targets are a good thing.

But I can understand how folks may be gunshy, with the history of unrealistic targets just thrown out with no scientific basis.

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41 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Their choice, their risk. Shouldn't hold the rest of us back. 

It's been a year. How are we still having this conversation? With a transmissible disease, their choices affect other people. People not choosing to get the vaccine will make it harder to open up, and more likely that a variant that can evade the vaccines evolves. 

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15 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

It's been a year. How are we still having this conversation? With a transmissible disease, their choices affect other people. People not choosing to get the vaccine will make it harder to open up, and more likely that a variant that can evade the vaccines evolves. 

Exactly. Vaccination doesn't get us back to normal if we don't get enough people vaccinated to achieve herd immunity. Unless someone is legitimately unable to get vaccinated due to medical reasons, choosing not to get one is selfish.

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51 minutes ago, Braivo said:

The metrics for reopening keep changing. There's no clear "finish line" out there for any agency.

... and there's no clear finish line for when you become a scratch golfer.  There are so many variables along that path.

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4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I do understand that the vast majority of young people who become infected have very minor symptoms, yet a few young people have died from COVID.

It's sort of strange how a few young people who have died from the flu don't get the press time like c19. I'm all for wearing masks, but common sense is good too. 

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1 hour ago, Braivo said:

Remember "two weeks to slow the spread"? They've been changing the deadline constantly for a year.

No, I think honestly you're mis-remembering that.

The first two weeks were much more of a "whoa, this is bad, everyone go home for at least two weeks and we'll begin looking into just how serious this is." The day they sent my wife and kids home, I told them they wouldn't be back in school the rest of the year (the school year). They weren't.

But, sure, how does another example of an arbitrary date gone wrong support your case? It supports mine: that we shouldn't be giving out quasi-arbitrary dates.

1 hour ago, Braivo said:

The metrics for reopening keep changing. There's no clear "finish line" out there for any agency. They won't even say "once cases get below X threshold we can reopen." 

We keep gaining understanding. Being rigid about something would be stupid.

1 hour ago, Braivo said:

Maybe a specific date isn't ideal to promise, but I'd like to see more metrics like "Once cases are below 50 per million we can fully reopen" or something like that. This feels endless right now because they keep changing the goal.

It feels endless? C'mon.

I get the second dose of Pfizer in < 1 week. Progress is being made. People calling masks "face diapers" and saying stuff like "their risk" SLOWS progress, it doesn't increase it.

1 hour ago, Braivo said:

My kids are back on virtual school again. Two months ago they said that once teachers were vaccinated that we'd stay open in person for good. Well the teachers are vaccinated and we just shut down for a few asymptomatic cases amongst students. They changed the rules in two months. Never ends. Back and forth. Brutal on kids. 

I get that, but so what? You'd rather people just be bull-headed and steam forward, science/understanding/whatever be damned?

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We have a friend whose child went to the doctor for something completely unrelated to Covid.   The child had not been sick or had any symptoms of Covid.   When they drew blood for the unrelated issue, there were Covid antibodies.    The child was asymptomatic but was at least a carrier.   

 

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(edited)
On 3/7/2021 at 8:23 AM, Ole Duffer said:

I would not change a thing, but Wednesday, five days after our second Pfizer shot, I noticed some bumps on the back of my head, in addition to the golfball bump.  I am never sick, but Friday I was diagnosed with Shingles.  My doctor-type-person said that can happen when your immune system is being manipulated.  I see on the Internet, it's happened to others.

Shingles is everything it's advertised to be!!!!!

So, has anyone else here come down with shingles, or any other immune-system related issue, after getting their COVID vaccine?

Edited by Ole Duffer
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37 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

So, has anyone else here come down with shingles, or any other immune-system related issue, after getting their COVID vaccine?

Seeing as how the COVID vaccines have not been out all that long, it’s highly unlikely.

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(edited)
52 minutes ago, Ole Duffer said:

So, has anyone else here come down with shingles, or any other immune-system related issue, after getting their COVID vaccine?

I haven't heard of any occurrences but believe me, you don't want shingles!  

More than a dozen countries, mostly in Europe, have suspended the use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine over fears the shot may have caused some recipients to develop blood clots.

Sweden and Latvia on Tuesday became the latest nations to halt the rollout, following moves by Germany, Italy, France, Spain, Denmark, Norway, and The Netherlands, among others.

Edited by dennyjones
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28 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

More than a dozen countries, mostly in Europe, have suspended the use of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine over fears the shot may have caused some recipients to develop blood clots.

I think the things I’ve read on that say that the incidences of clots were at the same level as generally seen.

In other words, the same % of people developed clots as normal, but they’ve attributed it to the vaccine for some reason.

That’s like saying “this guy rolled 3 on a die every sixth time on average, must be because he was vaccinated!”

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12 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think the things I’ve read on that say that the incidences of clots were at the same level as generally seen.

In other words, the same % of people developed clots as normal, but they’ve attributed it to the vaccine for some reason.

That’s like saying “this guy rolled 3 on a die every sixth time on average, must be because he was vaccinated!”

I think I saw a stat that of 7 million shots administers, there have been 22 incidents of blood clots. Suspending the vaccine after seeing that is ridiculous.

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13 minutes ago, iacas said:

I think the things I’ve read on that say that the incidences of clots were at the same level as generally seen.

In other words, the same % of people developed clots as normal, but they’ve attributed it to the vaccine for some reason.

That’s like saying “this guy rolled 3 on a die every sixth time on average, must be because he was vaccinated!”

 

Just now, DeadMan said:

I think I saw a stat that of 7 million shots administers, there have been 22 incidents of blood clots. Suspending the vaccine after seeing that is ridiculous.

I wonder if this is sort of a public health/PR thing to build confidence/trust in the vaccination process and prevent people from not getting vaccinated out of an irrational fear of extremely rare, isolated side effects; temporarily halt distribution of the AZ vaccine while the data is reviewed, and the present a scientific consensus that there is no undue risk, or something like that.

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1 hour ago, Ole Duffer said:

So, has anyone else here come down with shingles, or any other immune-system related issue, after getting their COVID vaccine?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but shingles is not really an "immune-system related issue" any more than measles would be, or malaria, or scarlet fever or polio, etc...

A covid vaccination is not going to give you shingles, if that's your concern.

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