General COVID-19 Topic

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

There has to be an acceptance of risk and a new normal.  
 

The COVID-19 risk for vaccinated people is roughly equal to 'riding in a vehicle,' recent data suggest

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The COVID-19 risk for vaccinated people is roughly equal to 'riding in a vehicle,' recent data suggest

But the reality is that "the risks of getting any version of the virus remain small for the vaccinated, and the risks of getting badly sick remain minuscule," Leonhardt writes. "In Seattle on an average recent day, about one out of every one million vaccinated residents have been admitted to a hospital with COVID symptoms. That risk is so close to zero that the human mind can't easily process it.

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Here's the problem with "accepting the new risk" for the vaccinated: there are still a lot of unvaccinated people out there, and the vaccinated care about those people. I'm not really all that worried, having been vaccinated, of getting really sick or dying. But I would still prefer not to get COVID, because I may pass it on to my stupid mother in law, who has said many of the same things as a lot of the other dumb "it's just a flu" and "I have natural immunity" (etc.) as others.

Especially since I could pass it on to her with an increased chance that my case is asymptomatic, since I am vaccinated.

So yeah, I wear a mask when I go to the store again. I'll wear it when teaching group lessons if Erie remains at certain levels, etc. I'll follow recommendations.

That's because while I'm okay with accepting the risks for myself, I'm not going to make choices for others.

[StuM]

19 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

There has to be an acceptance of risk and a new normal.

I agree there may be a new normal, but what does that new normal look like?  There are various ways to deal with risk.  Among them are can simply accept it, avoid it or you can manage it.  It is pretty hard to avoid the virus so I feel we are left with accept it or manage it.  If managing it can reduce the risk without substantial cost then why should be just accept the risk?  At this time masks are a minor inconvenience compared to the death of a person.  

[ChetlovesMer]

I actually had a conversation with a family member (I won't mention which family member, but extended family) in which they said they are glad their kids aren't wearing masks in school and have no problem carting their kids around to visit some of our "high risk" relatives because (I quote) "Kids can't get it." 

I said "You realize that's why its so risky because kids don't show symptoms you have no idea if they are going to spread it to the higher risk people, especially the non-vaccinated high risk people."

"No, Kids can't get it." 

I replied "Yes, they can, they just usually don't show symptoms." 

"No, I saw a thing that said kids can't get it." 

I remained calm "They can and do get it, they just don't show symptoms so they in effect are carriers." 

"Well, they can get it, but its really really rare. Like 1 in a million."

I continued to try "It's like 1 in a million that they get hospitalized."

"Yeah, that's what I said, kids can't get it." 

Once more. A little louder now. "No, kids can get it. You just don't know it until they spread it to somebody else. That's what makes it so dangerous."

"What ever, I heard kids can't get it." 

 

THIS is what I'm dealing with in my extended family. 

[chspeed]

 

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

Here's the problem with "accepting the new risk" for the vaccinated: there are still a lot of unvaccinated people out there, and the vaccinated care about those people.

This.

28 minutes ago, iacas said:

I'm not going to make choices for others.

But this and the above are IMO incompatible. Protecting yourself and your family can involve making "decisions" for others through vaccine and mask mandates.

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, chspeed said:

But this and the above are IMO incompatible. Protecting yourself and your family can involve making "decisions" for others through vaccine and mask mandates.

Yeah, I'm talking about why, despite very little risk to me, I'll still wear a mask places, etc. Because in not wearing a mask, I'm making the choice to increase the chance that unvaccinated people around me will die or be hospitalized, etc.

[Hardluckster]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Here's the problem with "accepting the new risk" for the vaccinated: there are still a lot of unvaccinated people out there, and the vaccinated care about those people. I'm not really all that worried, having been vaccinated, of getting really sick or dying. But I would still prefer not to get COVID, because I may pass it on to my stupid mother in law, who has said many of the same things as a lot of the other dumb "it's just a flu" and "I have natural immunity" (etc.) as others.

Especially since I could pass it on to her with an increased chance that my case is asymptomatic, since I am vaccinated.

So yeah, I wear a mask when I go to the store again. I'll wear it when teaching group lessons if Erie remains at certain levels, etc. I'll follow recommendations.

That's because while I'm okay with accepting the risks for myself, I'm not going to make choices for others.

I agree with this almost completely. I had the vaccinations and plan to get the booster as soon as I'm eligible. 

I'll also add that the higher the population that goes unvaccinated, the higher the possibility for more and deadlier variants. Eventually, a variant will appear that is completely immune to the current vaccine (due to the number of mutations) and new vaccines will be necessary. This probability increases greatly with more unvaccinated individuals. 

A large number of anti-vax folks simply want to be allowed to get back to normal. What many of those same people fail to understand is that the longer it takes to get a good majority of the population vaccinated, the longer it will take to ever get back to any long range sense or normalcy. We will never go back to a complete "pre-Covid normal", mo. 

Edited September 7, 2021 by Hardluckster

[Hardluckster]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I actually had a conversation with a family member (I won't mention which family member, but extended family) in which they said they are glad their kids aren't wearing masks in school and have no problem carting their kids around to visit some of our "high risk" relatives because (I quote) "Kids can't get it." 

I said "You realize that's why its so risky because kids don't show symptoms you have no idea if they are going to spread it to the higher risk people, especially the non-vaccinated high risk people."

"No, Kids can't get it." 

I replied "Yes, they can, they just usually don't show symptoms." 

"No, I saw a thing that said kids can't get it." 

I remained calm "They can and do get it, they just don't show symptoms so they in effect are carriers." 

"Well, they can get it, but its really really rare. Like 1 in a million."

I continued to try "It's like 1 in a million that they get hospitalized."

"Yeah, that's what I said, kids can't get it." 

Once more. A little louder now. "No, kids can get it. You just don't know it until they spread it to somebody else. That's what makes it so dangerous."

"What ever, I heard kids can't get it." 

 

THIS is what I'm dealing with in my extended family. 

I don't think anyone is likely going to convince the anti-mask and anti-vax folks with facts. They are only interested in "facts" that support their own personal views. It is sad, but it is my experience. 

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

But I would still prefer not to get COVID, because I may pass it on to my stupid mother in law, who has said many of the same things as a lot of the other dumb "it's just a flu" and "I have natural immunity" (etc.) as others.

I have a friend who just got his supply of ivermectin last week.  Should I ask him to save some for your mother-in-law?  /s

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I actually had a conversation with a family member (I won't mention which family member, but extended family) in which they said they are glad their kids aren't wearing masks in school and have no problem carting their kids around to visit some of our "high risk" relatives because (I quote) "Kids can't get it." 

I said "You realize that's why its so risky because kids don't show symptoms you have no idea if they are going to spread it to the higher risk people, especially the non-vaccinated high risk people."

"No, Kids can't get it." 

I replied "Yes, they can, they just usually don't show symptoms." 

"No, I saw a thing that said kids can't get it." 

I remained calm "They can and do get it, they just don't show symptoms so they in effect are carriers." 

"Well, they can get it, but its really really rare. Like 1 in a million."

I continued to try "It's like 1 in a million that they get hospitalized."

"Yeah, that's what I said, kids can't get it." 

Once more. A little louder now. "No, kids can get it. You just don't know it until they spread it to somebody else. That's what makes it so dangerous."

"What ever, I heard kids can't get it." 

 

THIS is what I'm dealing with in my extended family. 

Up is down, dammit.  I'm tellin' you, up is down.

Edited September 7, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I have a friend who just got his supply of ivermectin last week.  Should I ask him to save some for you mother-in-law?  /s

No need. She has natural immunity.

[chspeed]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Yeah, I'm talking about why, despite very little risk to me, I'll still wear a mask places, etc. Because in not wearing a mask, I'm making the choice to increase the chance that unvaccinated people around me will die or be hospitalized, etc.

True

30 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

"What ever, I heard kids can't get it." 

 

THIS is what I'm dealing with in my extended family. 

🤦‍♂️You just have to smile and walk away.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, chspeed said:

True

You just have to smile and walk away.

... but don't take in too big a breath when you smile...

[colin007]

"I've already had it, I can't get it again."

[Esox]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

But the reality is that "the risks of getting any version of the virus remain small for the vaccinated, and the risks of getting badly sick remain minuscule," Leonhardt writes. "In Seattle on an average recent day, about one out of every one million vaccinated residents have been admitted to a hospital with COVID symptoms. That risk is so close to zero that the human mind can't easily process it.

---

Here's the problem with "accepting the new risk" for the vaccinated: there are still a lot of unvaccinated people out there, and the vaccinated care about those people. I'm not really all that worried, having been vaccinated, of getting really sick or dying. But I would still prefer not to get COVID, because I may pass it on to my stupid mother in law, who has said many of the same things as a lot of the other dumb "it's just a flu" and "I have natural immunity" (etc.) as others.

Especially since I could pass it on to her with an increased chance that my case is asymptomatic, since I am vaccinated.

So yeah, I wear a mask when I go to the store again. I'll wear it when teaching group lessons if Erie remains at certain levels, etc. I'll follow recommendations.

That's because while I'm okay with accepting the risks for myself, I'm not going to make choices for others.

    Unfortunately, we have had quite a few break trough infections around here. 4 of those are people I know personally (2 being coworkers), none of those people got gravely ill, but one guy did ostensibly pass it on to an unvaccinated, pregnant sister in law who subsequently got quite ill and miscarried.

[Wanzo]

5 hours ago, StuM said:

At this time masks are a minor inconvenience compared to the death of a person.

Agree.  But playing devils advocate I assume you believe we should wear masks indefinitely to reduce deaths from covid along with other airborne transmitted viruses as well?  

 

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Here's the problem with "accepting the new risk" for the vaccinated: there are still a lot of unvaccinated people out there, and the vaccinated care about those people.

Good point and I totally agree.  

[Double Mocha Man]

54 minutes ago, colin007 said:

"I've already had it, I can't get it again."

You've already had it.  And you can still spread it.

"When you have immunity, your body can recognize and fight off the virus.
It's possible that people who've had COVID-19 can get sick again -- and maybe infect other people." - Webmd.com  (an apolitical website)

[colin007]

28 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

You've already had it.  And you can still spread it.

"When you have immunity, your body can recognize and fight off the virus.
It's possible that people who've had COVID-19 can get sick again -- and maybe infect other people." - Webmd.com  (an apolitical website)

Oh I know, I'm just joining in with the posting of asinine things mouth breathers say about why they don't get vaxxed

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, colin007 said:

Oh I know, I'm just joining in with the posting of asinine things mouth breathers say about why they don't get vaxxed

Okay... I missed the irony in that.  And the sarcasm.  Carry on.  😄

1 hour ago, Wanzo said:

But playing devils advocate I assume you believe we should wear masks indefinitely to reduce deaths from covid along with other airborne transmitted viruses as well?

These are not easy times.  Go Tigers!  (Was a Mizzou fan since I grew up in St. Louis)

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Wanzo said:

Agree.  But playing devils advocate I assume you believe we should wear masks indefinitely to reduce deaths from covid along with other airborne transmitted viruses as well?  

Generally best to not assume things (even though you weren't replying to me). This is a multi-variate issue with LOTS of factors.

I will point out that several strains of the flu went extinct because of the mask wearing last winter, and many people went without being sick for the first time in a decade+ last winter as well, and many of them said in the spring that they'd seriously consider wearing a mask in future winters, COVID or not.

Everyone has different tolerances, different levels of risk vs. inconvenience, different everything.