Blades vs. Cavity Backs - with Data/Video

[GolfLug]

2 hours ago, colin007 said:

Lol hey buddy!!

I was thinking something in between, like AP2s or CBs or JPXs. Nice compact cavity backs. 

Well, alright then. These are definitely acceptable...

I have both Adams CMBs (cav backs) and bought a set of last year's King Cobra MBs (as blady as they get these days) as a guilty purchase.

Honestly I can't tell much of a difference, feel or flight once I got over psychological look of the Cobra's super tiny head. Same shaft too - KBS tours. 

33 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Or Srixon Z785 irons. 😂

I got fitted for these at True Spec last year. Nice but it wasn't any appreciable flight difference.

Edited May 23, 2020 by GolfLug

[onthehunt526]

3 hours ago, GolfLug said:

I got fitted for these at True Spec last year. Nice but it wasn't any appreciable flight difference.

Really I noticed a big difference, but then again I also have a better fitted shaft in mine.

[GolfLug]

2 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

Really I noticed a big difference, but then again I also have a better fitted shaft in mine.

Compared to what clubs? Which shaft did you go to from which? He had me on Nippon MOD 3 which I think is stock for Srixon Zs, IIRC.

Honestly shafts make the lion's share of the diff with all gazillion bend, weight, frequency combos. 

We tried 5-6 different shafts. Anyway, not the topic here so don't want to digress too much. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by GolfLug

[onthehunt526]

23 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Compared to what clubs? Which shaft did you go to from which? He had me on Nippon MOD 3 which I think is stock for Srixon Zs, IIRC.

Honestly shafts make the lion's share of the diff with all gazillion bend, weight, frequency combos. 

We tried 5-6 different shafts. Anyway, not the topic here so don't want to digress too much. 

Well I’ll reel this back in so it’s back on topic there is a reason I brought it up. Mark went on opposite ends of the spectrum for his test. Super Game Improvement vs Blade. But what about the other categories, blades, player’s cavity, player’s distance, game-improvement, super game improvement? Through the spectrum off all the different types of irons I’d like to see the data of that test.

[DrvFrShow]

Yeah, but I played blades in the early 70s. It was all we had. When you hit a thin shot you knew it. Ouch! 

This said I was looking at a set of blades a year ago - the Cobra King MBs and I hit them well in the bay, but here's the problem.

I could hit the 7i 143 yds with a 10 yd gap between clubs down to the GW. Now that's not bad. But the yardage gap diminished to 9 yds going the other way: 152 for the 6i, And on a flushed 4i it was 170 yds. carry. Now my 5W carry is 210 yds. Thats 40 yds. Going the other way, the GW in the set went 103 carry which was fine. If I went with a standard wedge set up, I'd still have a yardage problem at the top end of the bag. There are some par 3s I couldn't reach with the 4i. 

So a set for me incorporating blades would go MB, 7-GW, 54, 58. GI 7i (155), GI 6i (170), 5H (185), 4H (200), 3W, D, Putter. Mix and match.

[onthehunt526]

5 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

Yeah, but I played blades in the early 70s. It was all we had. When you hit a thin shot you knew it. Ouch! 

This said I was looking at a set of blades a year ago - the Cobra King MBs and I hit them well in the bay, but here's the problem.

I could hit the 7i 143 yds with a 10 yd gap between clubs down to the GW. Now that's not bad. But the yardage gap diminished to 9 yds going the other way: 152 for the 6i, And on a flushed 4i it was 170 yds. carry. Now my 5W carry is 210 yds. Thats 40 yds. Going the other way, the GW in the set went 103 carry which was fine. If I went with a standard wedge set up, I'd still have a yardage problem at the top end of the bag. There are some par 3s I couldn't reach with the 4i. 

So a set for me incorporating blades would go MB, 7-GW, 54, 58. GI 7i (155), GI 6i (170), 5H (185), 4H (200), 3W, D, Putter. Mix and match.

143 yard carry with a 7i? That’s pretty impressive Julia.

The one thing I will say about blades, is front to back dispersion is smaller than with cavity backs. If you say hit a SGI 7-iron as Mark did. You could hit 100 shots, with reasonable strikes (not sculls and fats). And you’d have a bigger distance dispersion than you would with a blade on similar strikes. That’s why a lot of Lower handicappers these days have some sort of blended set of irons. Whether it’s blades from say 7-iron through pitching wedge, player‘s cavity 5 and 6 iron, utility or GI 4-iron and a hybrid or utility 3-iron.

I don’t know if I could jump from say 5-iron to a “Rinky Dinks” though because the gapping May become an issue. 
 

In my opinion, at least in the scoring clubs, (7 or 8-iron through PW) blades could be an option for probably almost any golfer with an 18 handicap or lower, no problem. If I’m say 152 yards out and I hit my 9-iron, I want that 9-iron to go 152 yards, not 130 sometimes and 170 others. Sometimes they go 149 others they go 156. I’m ok with that distance dispersion.

[DrvFrShow]

19 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

143 yard carry with a 7i? That’s pretty impressive Julia.

The one thing I will say about blades, is front to back dispersion is smaller than with cavity backs. If you say hit a SGI 7-iron as Mark did. You could hit 100 shots, with reasonable strikes (not sculls and fats). And you’d have a bigger distance dispersion than you would with a blade on similar strikes. That’s why a lot of Lower handicappers these days have some sort of blended set of irons. Whether it’s blades from say 7-iron through pitching wedge, player‘s cavity 5 and 6 iron, utility or GI 4-iron and a hybrid or utility 3-iron.

I don’t know if I could jump from say 5-iron to a “Rinky Dinks” though because the gapping May become an issue. 
 

In my opinion, at least in the scoring clubs, (7 or 8-iron through PW) blades could be an option for probably almost any golfer with an 18 handicap or lower, no problem. If I’m say 152 yards out and I hit my 9-iron, I want that 9-iron to go 152 yards, not 130 sometimes and 170 others. Sometimes they go 149 others they go 156. I’m ok with that distance dispersion.

I'd love to have a 152 yd 9i. It would make the course so much easier. Of course I'd have to move back a set of tees... or two. I use my hybrids a lot. Not always for full shots. They're great for hitting a punchy shot out of pine straw. And I use varying clubs for different types of shots... you know get creative at times. When you play as badly as I do, you have to get creative to walk off the green with "that was a par" or "that was a bogey".

[ShawnSum]

Pretty cool seeing this discussion here. I watched this video when it came out and thought the results were reassuring, lol! I say that because I placed my order for a couple Titleist 620 MBs back in April and they finally came in here recently. I've only got two rounds in with them so far and only have 8i-PW but I am loving them so far and plan to buy more!

[dmnoland]

I could probably game either type of head providing I like the feel/weight/length/shaft. My current irons (g25) and wedges were actually chosen because they had the shaft I wanted and were the last set of clubs I bought when chasing down a proper swing.

I still think slower swingers or those with a poor swing will benefit from cavity back/game improvement irons but shaft is still king.

 

[WillieT]

On 5/20/2020 at 2:38 PM, Darkfrog said:

At one point I thought I would benefit from GI irons. I tried a few from my friend's set, and also hit a few different models during lessons (Cobra F9, Mizuno Hot Metal), and they just looked too big behind the ball at address, and strangely, this did not give me more confidence. I guess I'm just used to the appearance of the thinner top line, narrower sole, and shorter heel to toe length. I'm the opposite with hybrids and woods though, with those, the bigger the better.

I have a set of Callaway Diablo Edge irons graphite shafts that just "look" super clunky and totally non-confidence inspiring when compared to the set of Titleist 962's w/rifle 6.0 shafts.  I love the 962's at address and when I swing those I pretty much know the distance even on mishits.  The Diablo's seem to be more erratic.  When I was looking at the data sheet on the carry distances that @iacas put in his original post, I was thinking - Diablo's left, 962's right.  What does all this mean - I think it proves we want verifiable data that will help validate the clubs we play or don't play.  The test was done as about consistently possible with a human doing the swinging.  Norming the data, taking out the flyers, proved that Mark can hit any club he wants with reasonable accuracy.  It is like @iacas said, he can shoot 73 with his wife's clubs.  It is the Indian who learns to shoot the arrow no matter the bow that does not starve at the end of the day.     

On a personal note, will getting fit for irons make me any better?  Not really, because you have to have good technique to be better.  Fitted clubs are often like eye candy on a motorcycle, looks good but won't get you home.  Truly believe in working through what the guys teach in LSW about working on the proper skill sets.  Then, just maybe, it will be time to look into clubs that are easier to work, hence the MB's and player's CB's.  Till then, Diablo's left, 962's right and 845s Silver Scots somewhere in between.   

 

[ShawnSum]

To all the other guys on the forum that game blades or muscle-backs at what point in the longer irons did you feel it was best to hit a CB instead? 4i, 5i, 6i? 

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, ShawnSum said:

To all the other guys on the forum that game blades or muscle-backs at what point in the longer irons did you feel it was best to hit a CB instead? 4i, 5i, 6i? 

Probably 6 iron and up for me. I could see 7 iron and up. 

[billchao]

2 hours ago, ShawnSum said:

To all the other guys on the forum that game blades or muscle-backs at what point in the longer irons did you feel it was best to hit a CB instead? 4i, 5i, 6i? 

When I played my blades, 7i was the transition point for me. If I wanted to mix and match to make my own combo set, I’d probably only play the blades in 8i-PW.

[iacas]

2I. I play my Miura 3I Tournament Blade. 😉

I almost never have to hit it, though, and my hybrid occupies the 2I/5W slot.

[colin007]

IDK if it qualifies, I play MP58s down to a 4 iron. I have the opposite problem where I hit my 4-7 irons more solidly than my 8-PW.

[ShawnSum]

Marks follow up video for those interested.

[iacas]

44 minutes ago, ShawnSum said:

Marks follow up video for those interested.

What's the executive summary?

[ShawnSum]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

What's the executive summary?

He collects all the data hitting shots left handed to replicate a 20 handicapper since that's what all the comments were asking for in the previous video. Goes on to talk about how much "noisy" data you would have to sift through to determine marginal differences with a 20 handicappers strike patterns, dispersions, etc as he/they tend to hit all over the club face.

Goes on and talks about how people should search themselves, find the things that are important to them and work on themselves rather then chase supposed "technology" is what I got from it. Mark has a way of saying things without actually saying certain things, like the cupface technology not helping him on a few shots, lol.