Does Your Course Charge Extra to Ride Solo?

[phillyk 505]

WA is phase 2 and double riders with masks, where this thread started. Im playing in the state and section open in the coming weeks and they sent emails about encouraging single carts but said riding solo would mean paying the full fee, $36 per day instead of 15ish. Of course they are bringing in nearly a full fleet of carts for 2 days (total of 120 carts are at the state open with section open likely being same). So price reflects normal fee plus what it takes to bring in extra carts. 

If a course were to bring in extra carts for daily play, price will skyrocket. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by phillyk

[saevel25 1,805]

21 minutes ago, dsc123 said:

What I said--in the very part you quoted again here--is that the policy is "off-putting" to me, given the realities of the pandemic.  I understand its their policy.  I'm saying its a bad policy.  And later, I said it that seems to conflict with the law.

Some courses are just stuck. They want to fill tee times, but they can't afford to rent or buy new carts. So, they can't maximize their tee times when a foursome wants more than to carts. It's really a catch 22 for the course. I feel like using the pandemic as leverage to make a course do something that could cause them financial harm is not good for a course trying to make ends meet. 

21 minutes ago, dsc123 said:

When the executive order says you must follow the CDC guidance, the CDC guidance is incorporated into the law.  

Not true. Depending on the state law, executive orders can be not enforceable. I know in Ohio the police are telling people not to call them to report people not wearing masks. It's not enforceable though the governor mandated it. Basically, its up to the good will of the people. There are some pressure on businesses like restaurants that could have the health and safety inspector crack down on them. I know a local bar near me almost had their liquor license revoked because they did a poor job at requiring social distancing. Businesses that require indoor usage of a space have a much greater burden than a golf course by all accounts on how this virus works. 

Also, I worked for a city before. Guidance has many forms depending not he words used. If the CDC says, "Should", then it's not required. If they use the word, "Shall", then it is required. Guidance does not necessarily equate to law. 

 

 

[boogielicious 2,758]

14 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Because that little piece of plexiglas was bogus?  Gave you a false sense of security?  The virus particles coming from your mouth are like a shank... they can shoot off in a completely inappropriate direction and go around barriers.  With apologies and condolences to Vinsk.

What about drool? 

[iacas 9,834]

@dsc123, I think I've succeeded in distracting you because I'm not sure what your point is. The topic is about golf courses charging extra to ride solo, and even if it was Constitutional Law that golf courses had to, in times of pandemic, allow no double cart riders… they could still charge extra for the extra cart.

People are playing soccer, little league, etc. The CDC's guidelines for "social distancing" don't require six feet or masks when outdoors. Where I teach, we have a person who is a former state employee running things. Our rules there are masks indoors when anyone but staff is inside.

Ultimately, much of this requires common sense. Don't sit next to your cart partner for 10 minutes on every tee box. Stuff like that.

If you're going to a course with double cart riders, your options if you're afraid at all remain:

• Don't go/Go elsewhere.
• Fill out your foursome with people you "trust."
• Possibly pay extra to get a solo cart, if the course even allows it.

As @saevel25 pointed out, it doesn't conflict with the law as many of these things (executive orders, etc.) aren't laws.

And, I'm not going to talk about some specific case about some course somewhere. I don't care about one-off examples any more than I cared about DMM's one-off case of his 69-year-old friend or whatever it was.

8 hours ago, dsc123 said:

Many states, including PA, RI, NH, WA, VT, and ME, prohibited dual riders during earlier reopening phases.  The PGA of America recommends single rider in "Phase 1" and double riding only with masks in "Phase 2."

We did here in Erie, too, yeah. That phase was over a loooong time before this topic was started for almost every golfer out there.

So, what's your point at this point: that it's wrong of a golf course to charge extra for solo carts?

If so, I disagree. And that's about all I've ever really talked about. That and the options golfers face if they don't like that policy.

---

FWIW I wrote that in about five minutes before teaching all day today. So no I didn’t read the PDFs yet. I doubt they’ll change my opinion that it’s not wrong of courses to charge more for solo carts.

If you want to be offended by the opinions of someone else, go ahead. I changed my use title awhile ago for a reason. This small part of the pandemic is really overall not that important.

[dsc123 152]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

@dsc123, I think I've succeeded in distracting you because I'm not sure what your point is.

Its a conversation.  The point to any one message evolves.  I shared what what one course is doing, and said I don't like it.  That was my point.  When you told me I was wrong because there are no rules specifically prohibiting double carting, I cited a few.  There, my point was that you're wrong.  So you come back with, "well that's not what Mocha was talking about."  Okay.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And, I'm not going to talk about some specific case about some course somewhere.

Please, man.  Don't respond to my post about a one-off example, make multiple arguments as to why my opinion is wrong, then act like I'm just droning on in a corner talking to myself about something you're always been too cool to talk about.

2 hours ago, iacas said:

---

So no I didn’t read the PDFs yet. I doubt they’ll change my opinion that it’s not wrong of courses to charge more for solo carts.

If you want to be offended by the opinions of someone else, go ahead. I changed my use title awhile ago for a reason. This small part of the pandemic is really overall not that important.

Don't bother.  They are just executive orders that specifically address golf carts.  Save the time reading them and take my word for it.  I just sent them because you told me, without qualification, that golf carts are "allowed," that you know that I'm wrong, that "onus" is on me to prove you wrong, and that nobody identified any rule specific to golf carts.  There they are.  And you're response is that you're really talking about something else, or I must be offended by your opinion about fees, or whatever.  Lol.  okay. 

[DaveP043 2,365]

I understand the value of physical distancing, I understand that it might be mandatory in some areas, I understand that physical distancing could require single-rider carts.  I don't know if its the fact anywhere, but I can accept that it could be.  The thing with all of these executive orders is that not one of them says there won't be monetary implications for following them.  In the simplest case, many of us have been required to spend money to buy masks.  Restaurants may need to charge for what once was free delivery, to keep themselves afloat.  Compliance with the limited seating in restaurants has certainly decreased their income.  Similarly for golf courses, the orders might require single rider carts, but not one says the course is required to provide them at the old single-person (two riders per cart) rate.

Is there a moral imperative in these difficult times?  To me, its much more important for a business to remain financially viable, that keeps people in jobs, which keeps money flowing through the entire system.  If a course can survive while charging the same per-person rate for a single rider cart as it did when it could put two people in the same cart, good for them.  But if they need to up the rate in order to stay financially healthy, that's what they should do, that's the RIGHT thing to do.

[iacas 9,834]

@dsc123, we're done replying to each other because I feel you're intentionally misrepresenting what I've said (and you likely feel the same). I feel I've always been talking about generalities, and you seem to be talking about a specific situation. I feel I've mostly tried to talk about the topic — charging when players choose or are required to take a solo cart — and you seem to be talking about the solo cart requirements themselves. I don't care about the requirements, really: they're slightly different everywhere and change pretty often. Hell, at WW we had solo carts even for same-household members, then doubles for same-household, then doubles with a divider, and now doubles with no dividers. I don't see much point in talking about that, and it's not the topic anyway.

So, I'm going to enforce the rule we've had here since day one: please stick to the topic — which is about "charging extra to ride solo." To that, I will re-state my opinion: that it's fine by me if courses charge more for players who choose or are required to ride solo.

[GolfLug 593]

8 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The thing with all of these executive orders is that not one of them says there won't be monetary implications for following them. 

+1.

This, I believe, is where even the government has said - "do as you need to, to make what matters happen". There might be some courses that are being opportunistic, but many are most possibly fighting to stay alive. Not sure how anyone can speak for them one way or the other without actually being an intrinsic part of a course's management.

I can speak for myself as I play 3 rounds/month in peak season and $60 extra or so for the month doesn't put me out greatly but I am very much of the understanding that it can end up being make or break for the course. My ex-home course (semi-private) had to sell to a new owner last year for want of cash and by all accounts it is one the healthier ones around here.   

Edited July 29, 2020 by GolfLug

[Patch 953]

No, not my home course. It's still $25 for a one person cart, and 18 holes..Non residents pay $50 I think. 

They are actually talking about keeping it this way after this virus thing calms down. It has shown to speed up play.

After the virus restriction are lifted they will honor two persons to a cart on request. Right now two people are allowed if one is to young to have driver's license. That, or a medical issue is involved. 

[mclaren4life 27]

All the courses around me are packed pretty much daily. It varies as to how they cart you. I’ve seen 4 carts for a foursome and I’ve seen 2 as normal. I haven’t run across any that charge you extra for riding solo. Where I usually play it’s $60 to $80 to ride per player. Walking is not an option at this course. I’m good either way as far as a solo surcharge. Most courses are renting carts and have to offset that cost somehow.  The way I look at it is if I can drop over $50 for a round I can’t bitch too much about an extra 5 or 10. 

[Ole Duffer 0]

The course I would be playing at if I was playing this year does not care how customers wish to cart, so I see singles and doubles.  When the Young Bucks play, they may have six carts in their group.  (Let's not go there!)

Strange, though, the course where I would not be playing even if I was playing this year, where I am a member only because I pay them money, so I am still on their email list, recently sent out an email emphasizing their 2 carts per foursome rule. The superintendent was chastising members who play in their personal carts and don't pair up, citing the extra damage that does to the dormant grass.