Who SHOULD Be Faster? 2 Young Men Each In His Own Cart, Or Four Senior Citizen Ladies?

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay so I played 9 holes at a local muni the other day. It is only a 9-hole course, but it is full sized 9. The groups in front of us look like this.

There was me and 2 other guys, and we were walking. In front of us there was a young couple in a cart. In front of them another couple in a cart. In front of them 2 guys (each with his own cart.) In front of them 4 senior citizen ladies, all walking.

To no one’s surprise, the course is getting backed up.

Or course everyone assumes the 4 senior citizen ladies are the cause of all the woes. BUT NO. It turns out the 2 dudes each with his own cart have 2 open holes in front of them, maybe 2 and a half. The senior ladies are booking right along. (Yes, they were playing the forward tees, no they do not really hit it far enough to lose sight of it.) They just got to their ball and hit it. Then moved right along.

Funny, how the one group who should have been the fastest on the course. Two younger guys, each with his own cart were actually the slowest players on the course.

It just goes to show you never know.

Personally, I think I would be a little embarrassed if I was part of a twosome, we each had our own cart, and we were holding up the course and being left behind by 4 senior citizen ladies.

[TourSpoon]

What would have been better was to put the 4 ladies in back of the 2 guys so they could push them along. Some of those groups don't mess around! 

[StuM]

Out of curiosity, were the 2 guys with their own carts paying the tips and/or hitting extra balls?

[ChetlovesMer]

8 minutes ago, StuM said:

Out of curiosity, were the 2 guys with their own carts paying the tips and/or hitting extra balls?

They were playing the tips. Although to be truthful the tips at this course aren't much different then the whites. An extra 150 yards spread over 9 holes. 

I'm not even sure they were "slow" so to speak. I mean, we played all 9 in about 2 hours. I really think they just don't know "how" to play fast. Like how to play ready golf. How to save time getting on and off the green or on and off the teebox. It always seems like some people get it. And some people don't. 

[mcanadiens]

You play long enough in enough different situations, you realize that stereotypes are just that. 

Seniors and especially senior women (very rare in my parts) are almost never problems in my experience. Maybe it is sort of a defense mechanism against the stereotype itself, but experienced female golfers usually have a terrific pace of play. 

Young hackers, often, will not give up a ball search and they often have many ball searches in a round of golf. 

So, it doesn't surprise me. 

[Bonvivant]

Not surprised at all....right now I'm convinced that the only slow golfers are football fans (sorry not sorry). That isn't to say that all football fans are slow, but pace of play on Sundays after 1 PM has been nothing short of amazing compared to Saturday at the same time. It's still slow, but at least 4 hours is within sight on Sunday afternoons now.

[StuM]

2 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Not surprised at all....right now I'm convinced that the only slow golfers are football fans (sorry not sorry). That isn't to say that all football fans are slow, but pace of play on Sundays after 1 PM has been nothing short of amazing compared to Saturday at the same time. It's still slow, but at least 4 hours is within sight on Sunday afternoons now.

Well, maybe the issue is with Pro-Football fans.  Us college fans watch on Saturday and Golf on Sunday.  Of course COVID messed that up a little this year.

[Piz]

It is something of a running joke, among my friends and I, that the younger the group ahead of us is...the slower they are likely to play.  While it isn't true in all instances...it is certainly the case more often than not.  I suspect that they simply do not know how to get around the course in a reasonable length of time...or that such a thing is expected of them.

[ncates00]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Okay so I played 9 holes at a local muni the other day. It is only a 9-hole course, but it is full sized 9. The groups in front of us look like this.

There was me and 2 other guys, and we were walking. In front of us there was a young couple in a cart. In front of them another couple in a cart. In front of them 2 guys (each with his own cart.) In front of them 4 senior citizen ladies, all walking.

To no one’s surprise, the course is getting backed up.

Or course everyone assumes the 4 senior citizen ladies are the cause of all the woes. BUT NO. It turns out the 2 dudes each with his own cart have 2 open holes in front of them, maybe 2 and a half. The senior ladies are booking right along. (Yes, they were playing the forward tees, no they do not really hit it far enough to lose sight of it.) They just got to their ball and hit it. Then moved right along.

Funny, how the one group who should have been the fastest on the course. Two younger guys, each with his own cart were actually the slowest players on the course.

It just goes to show you never know.

Personally, I think I would be a little embarrassed if I was part of a twosome, we each had our own cart, and we were holding up the course and being left behind by 4 senior citizen ladies.

The point is well made. However, another thing to consider could be that the guys teed off when there was a break in the action. Meaning, there weren’t any tee times that closely ahead of them, and the subsequent groups piled in after them. Of course this is likely not true, but I’m stretching trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. More likely, they’re slow players not respecting others’ time, as you seem to indicate. 

Edited October 13, 2020 by ncates00

[ChetlovesMer]

13 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

The point is well made. However, another thing to consider could be that the guys teed off when there was a break in the action. Meaning, there weren’t any tee times that closely ahead of them, and the subsequent groups piled in after them. Of course this is likely not true, but I’m stretching trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. More likely, they’re slow players not respecting others’ time, as you seem to indicate. 

Its a good theory, but alas no. I saw the ladies on the first green with the 2 guys right behind them. Then when the two guys were just teeing off on hole 4 (a par 5 no less) the ladies were at least completely done with 5. By the time the 2 guys were teeing off on 8, those ladies were in the parking lot. 

[Darkfrog]

I'll echo what others have said, that I rarely see a group of older golfers creating a log jam on the course. I've played with quite a few groups of men and women in their 60s, 70s, and maybe even 80s without any pace of play issues. In my experience it's usually foursomes of 20-40 year old men who play slow.

I don't really blame the golfers in most cases. I feel like the course management has to take some responsibility in informing players about pace of play expectations. The only pace of play reminders most courses around me have is a note printed in 6pt font on the scorecard that no one looks at anyways.

[mcanadiens]

40 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

That isn't to say that all football fans are slow, but pace of play on Sundays after 1 PM has been nothing short of amazing compared to Saturday at the same time

Ohio State only plays on Saturdays.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

11 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Ohio State only plays on Saturdays.

 

Not yet they don't. 

[Bonvivant]

Just now, mcanadiens said:

Ohio State only plays on Saturdays.

 

 

32 minutes ago, StuM said:

Well, maybe the issue is with Pro-Football fans.  Us college fans watch on Saturday and Golf on Sunday.  Of course COVID messed that up a little this year.

I hear ya. I've played 2 Sundays since NFL started, and it has been great. My Saturday rounds in that time are still slow. Within a couple of weeks it'll be a ghost town though. Can't wait for some winter golf.

More on the actual topic: I don't think that age plays a role in how quick a group is on the golf course. To me it comes from a handful of things listed below

1.) Lack of instruction

2.) Emulating pros (basically taking too long when it is their turn to play)

3.) Lack of regard for others (thinking of it as leisure time where they should be allowed to take as much time as they want)

[billchao]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I'm not even sure they were "slow" so to speak. I mean, we played all 9 in about 2 hours.

A twosome playing in separate carts with nobody in front of them turning in at two hours is slow. I’d even argue extremely slow. Last time I was in that situation the two of us (walking) finished 18 in under three hours, with the ranger having to hold us up because we were on the heels of the grounds crew.

[colin007]

Slow players are slow irregardless

[ChetlovesMer]

Just now, billchao said:

A twosome playing in separate carts with nobody in front of them turning in at two hours is slow. I’d even argue extremely slow. Last time I was in that situation the two of us (walking) finished 18 in under three hours, with the ranger having to hold us up because we were on the heels of the grounds crew.

You and I agree on this. 

Having said that, I sometime (actually often) hear people say that I'm not allowed to complain if the round of 18 is less than 4 hours or if the 9 is under 2 hours. 

In my humble opinion that should be situation based. For example a tournament round may take a bit longer. A twosome each with his own cart should be a lot quicker. Once again, only my opinion. 

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Seniors and especially senior women (very rare in my parts) are almost never problems in my experience. Maybe it is sort of a defense mechanism against the stereotype itself, but experienced female golfers usually have a terrific pace of play. 

To your point there is a senior ladies club/league that plays I think it's Tuesday midmornings out at this course. I once played behind them. I was playing alone, and while I did wait for a bit on every teebox, It was certainly more than reasonable, after all, I was playing alone. They moved right along. Way WAY better than playing behind a corporate outing... Oh my GOD! Those things can take forever and a day!

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Having said that, I sometime (actually often) hear people say that I'm not allowed to complain if the round of 18 is less than 4 hours or if the 9 is under 2 hours. 

It’s discussed in another thread, but pace of play and a round feeling fast or slow has to do with the flow of the round. I’ve played 4:00 rounds that felt slow and 4:30 rounds that felt smooth.