Talking to a Competitor About Their Shot Before They Hit

[Zippo]

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:08 AM, MattM said:

this old guys walks up to the ball looks at it and says, "I'm so glad I don't have your shot right now that's such a difficult shot etc."  

Expand  

The proper response would be to smile and say - "With your swing I can see where it would be a tough shot"...

[MattM]

  On 12/2/2020 at 3:39 AM, Piz said:

Assigning motive to what other people say is not helpful...unless you know that person.  Adopt the principle of charity and assume they mean nothing by it.  Most of the time they don't...they are just making conversation or expressing their own thoughts.

Expand  

I do know him.  He DEFINITELY meant to do it.

Actually, now that I'm reading it....Isn't telling someone, "don't hit it in the sand or water" giving advice?

 

[iacas]

  On 12/2/2020 at 4:24 AM, MattM said:

Actually, now that I'm reading it....Isn't telling someone, "don't hit it in the sand or water" giving advice?

Expand  

No.

Seriously, Matt. Tell the guy to shut his trap or suck it up and/or laugh off his attempts. Jeezus. If it’s this easy to throw you off I almost can’t blame him at all.

Handle it. One way or another. If you couldn’t handle it as a human I doubt you could handle telling him he broke a rule if that was the case.

[ncates00]

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:08 AM, MattM said:

Ok so, I'm trying to keep my mind clear of negativity to hit this shot I'm walking up to the ball to hit it and right before I do this old guys walks up to the ball looks at it and says, "I'm so glad I don't have your shot right now that's such a difficult shot etc."  

Naturally, I'm over the ball and can't shake the negative feeling and obviously I did the wedge into the ground and it winds up in the bunker.....I wind up taking a 7 and am LIVID!  

 

Expand  

 

  On 12/2/2020 at 2:14 AM, MattM said:

The issue is when someone introduces bullshit doubt into the next shot I'm about to take.  On my own I can sometimes eliminate (in my mind) the possible negative outcome of the next shot, but if someone specifically talks about that negative outcome right before I hit the shot I'm unable to clear it from my mind. 

Expand  

Good grief, man.  Toughen up a bit.  Like @iacas, @David in FL, and others have already indicated: tell the guy to shut up or get over it.  Why is it only in golf do people seem to be so weak-minded?

[Carl3]

This reminds me of the episode on Bewitched where Darrin and his boss Larry take a prospective client golfing. The client is addressing his ball and Darrin asks if he inhales or exhales on his backswing and it totally messes the guy up to where he cannot function anymore. Hoses his game.

[MattM]

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:09 PM, iacas said:

No.

Seriously, Matt. Tell the guy to shut his trap or suck it up and/or laugh off his attempts. Jeezus. If it’s this easy to throw you off I almost can’t blame him at all.

Handle it. One way or another. If you couldn’t handle it as a human I doubt you could handle telling him he broke a rule if that was the case.

Expand  

I did tell him to f*** off and worry about his own ball he just talked more shit after...Short of having fist fight with an old man that's about all I could do.  And yes I have called rules violations on folks before, but generally try to help fellow competitors as much as possible during competition.

I've been playing in these money tournaments for about 3 years now and it has 120+members and I have never played in a foursome during a tournament where someone was blatantly pulling this.  I assumed there was some rule against it since I haven't had someone try that before.

I asked the question and you guys answered, and I honestly didn't thank my manhood or ability to " handle it as a human" would come into question.

I think the topic is now over, and ask that you please close the thread unless you folks aren't done attacking me yet.

 

[mcanadiens]

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, MattM said:

I asked the question and you guys answered, and I honestly didn't thank my manhood or ability to " handle it as a human" would come into question.

I think the topic is now over, and ask that you please close the thread unless you folks aren't done attacking me yet.

Expand  

The very fact that you perceive these responses as "attacking you", does suggest a lot of sensitivity. 

Personally, I can relate. I'm definitely too high-strung and this hurts me on the course when I'm playing with the sort of people that would exploit that. Playing with my friends or casuals isn't a problem. We are all rooting for each other. In competition, your opponent is most definitely not rooting for you and some will pull out all the stops to win.

Competitive golf isn't for everyone. If you wish to pursue it, recognize this as something to work on. 

[MattM]

  On 12/2/2020 at 1:18 PM, mcanadiens said:

The very fact that you perceive these responses as "attacking you", does suggest a lot of sensitivity. 

Personally, I can relate. I'm definitely too high-strung and this hurts me on the course when I'm playing with the sort of people that would exploit that. Playing with my friends or casuals isn't a problem. We are all rooting for each other. In competition, your opponent is most definitely not rooting for you and some will pull out all the stops to win.

Competitive golf isn't for everyone. If you wish to pursue it, recognize this as something to work on. 

Expand  

Honestly after about 50 tournaments played it's the first time someone has pulled this.  I didn't even know I would need to deal with this sort of nonsense.  Everyone else I've played with wants to beat you at your best and still actively root for each other.

[mcanadiens]

  On 12/2/2020 at 1:25 PM, MattM said:

Honestly after about 50 tournaments played it's the first time someone has pulled this.  I didn't even know I would need to deal with this sort of nonsense.  Everyone else I've played with wants to beat you at your best and still actively root for each other.

Expand  

Maybe then, you've simply had some good fortune to have avoided that particular type in the past. 

At my low level, I'd say most people in my club events have been pretty good guys to play with, but there are some particular guys that will press buttons. They are out there and it is inevitable that you'll run into one of them again.

I'd also guess that as you progress to higher levels of competition, that type will become more common.

[iacas]

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, MattM said:

I did tell him to f*** off and worry about his own ball he just talked more shit after...

Expand  

You continued to let it affect you.

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, MattM said:

And yes I have called rules violations on folks before, but generally try to help fellow competitors as much as possible during competition.

Expand  

Your reaction here (letting him get to you) certainly helped him out.

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, MattM said:

I've been playing in these money tournaments for about 3 years now and it has 120+members and I have never played in a foursome during a tournament where someone was blatantly pulling this.  I assumed there was some rule against it since I haven't had someone try that before.

Expand  

It's really not that blatant. Or, honestly, all that terrible. You called it "egregious" in your first post, all the guy said was, quoting you: "I'm so glad I don't have your shot right now that's such a difficult shot…".

Dude.

That was all that you said happened. That was all the guy said to you, that prompted you asking if he breached the Rules!

  On 12/2/2020 at 12:48 PM, MattM said:

I asked the question and you guys answered, and I honestly didn't thank my manhood or ability to " handle it as a human" would come into question.

I think the topic is now over, and ask that you please close the thread unless you folks aren't done attacking me yet.

Expand  

Oh my. Thankfully, @mcanadiens replied well enough for everyone:

  On 12/2/2020 at 1:18 PM, mcanadiens said:

The very fact that you perceive these responses as "attacking you", does suggest a lot of sensitivity.

Expand  

Seriously, man. What the heck do you do if someone flips you off in traffic, have a full on breakdown? I laugh at them and move on.

The guy said, and again I'll quote you: "I'm so glad I don't have your shot right now that's such a difficult shot…".

For f***'s sake, toughen up! Even though @mcanadiens said he could relate, I don't think he'd think twice about "I'm so glad I don't have your shot right now."

  On 12/2/2020 at 1:25 PM, MattM said:

Honestly after about 50 tournaments played it's the first time someone has pulled this.  I didn't even know I would need to deal with this sort of nonsense.  Everyone else I've played with wants to beat you at your best and still actively root for each other.

Expand  

I still struggle to find the part where he "pulled" anything.

You're over-reacting by an order of magnitude or two.

P.S. Unless your "f*** off" was said somewhat jokingly (and I'm pretty sure it wasn't), this other guy could be writing a post on another forum somewhere about how he was playing with this real asshole the other day, and all he did was say something about how tough this other guy's shot was going to be and the guy said "f*** you, you old bastard, stop talking to me!" and got super pissed and treated him like crap for the rest of the round, but how he got the last laugh because he beat the asshole by ten, and how he doesn't understand why some people get so upset over nothing. 🙂

[MattM]

You forgot the ect... In your quote.  He also talked about me not hitting it into the bunker as well...

I get it though you've made your point I asked a rules question and you answered.. In your mind any golfer affected by shit on a golf course is a baby apparently..

Clearly you've made your point that you think I am also and am over reacting (I'm aknowleging that I see your point of view)...Are you going to continue on with this diatribe?

[iacas]

  On 12/2/2020 at 2:10 PM, MattM said:

You forgot the ect... In your quote.  He also talked about me not hitting it into the bunker as well...

Expand  

I doubted he said "etc" so I left it out. I put ellipsis. "Not hitting it into the bunker" isn't what I'd call "egregious" either.

  On 12/2/2020 at 2:10 PM, MattM said:

I get it though you've made your point I asked a rules question and you answered.. In your mind any golfer affected by shit on a golf course is a baby apparently.

Expand  

No, not any golfer. We're talking about you, in this case, specifically. And yeah, you're coming off as a snowflake.

Cripes, man, the stuff I said to @Hardspoon (and that he said to me) last Friday at Firestone Farms would have seemingly had you curled up in the fetal position.

  On 12/2/2020 at 2:10 PM, MattM said:

Clearly you've made your point that you think I am also and am over reacting (I'm aknowleging that I see your point of view)...Are you going to continue on with this diatribe?

Expand  

Are you? Christ, man, people are giving you good advice here. To quote someone earlier, "Toughen up, buttercup."

Seriously, buddy.

[DaveP043]

I think a reasonable follow-on within this topic is what any of us can do in this situation.  You're not alone that your fellow players or opponents can do or say things that are completely within the rules, but that still irritate you, and that can influence your play.  Personally, I've played enough competition that I rarely get bothered, but I know I used to.  Heck, in the situation you described, I'd have already recognized that I'm facing a reasonably demanding shot, and started my preparation to execute that shot.  To me that's the key, absorbing all of the available information (including comments by other people) and then concentrating on the important bits, mentally discarding the rest.  The swing thought should be the same, regardless of what's been said, so learn to empty your mind of everything but the key thought(s) for that particular shot.

[ncates00]

@MattMJangling clubs around, excessive movement, excessive talking and all that in the middle of your swing is one thing.  But to get all upset because a guy talked about not wanting your difficult shot or to watch out for the bunker?  Seriously man.  It's just golf.  Don't be so sensitive. 

Remember, you weren't playing in a casual round of golf with friends; you were playing in a competition.  Some folks are very competitive and will jaw a bit.  That's just part of it.  Did you not play any sports growing up?  Trash talk is just part of it.  You recognized this to some degree but you created a very lame distinction between "you suck" (acceptable) vs. "mind games/talking about a shot" (not acceptable).  I don't see a distinction there; I just see you being overly sensitive and looking for an excuse for your own poor shots.  That's called an external locus of control--looking to cast blame. 

I guarantee you that if you had let your clubs do the talking, that guy wouldn't have said much after that.  Moreover, if you had the ability to let your clubs do the talking, you wouldn't have been so sensitive as you would understand that your ability determines your golfing fate and wouldn't look to blame someone else or gripe about a little bit of trash talking in a competitive round.

[MattM]

If you are asking if I'm continuing a diatribe the answer is no.  As you can read I haven't tried to defend myself or viewpoint in the last three or four posts.  I am pointing out the continual rehashing of the same comments directed toward.

As I said I see your viewpoint, and I am not defending mine.  What more do you need?  

 

[DaveP043]

  On 12/2/2020 at 2:38 PM, ncates00 said:

I guarantee you that if you had let your clubs do the talking, that guy wouldn't have said much after that. 

Expand  

Exactly, if you execute the tough shot, carry the bunker, get the ball on the green, you can say "Yeah, that sure WAS a tough shot." 

[MattM]

  On 12/2/2020 at 2:38 PM, DaveP043 said:

I think a reasonable follow-on within this topic is what any of us can do in this situation.  You're not alone that your fellow players or opponents can do or say things that are completely within the rules, but that still irritate you, and that can influence your play.  Personally, I've played enough competition that I rarely get bothered, but I know I used to.  Heck, in the situation you described, I'd have already recognized that I'm facing a reasonably demanding shot, and started my preparation to execute that shot.  To me that's the key, absorbing all of the available information (including comments by other people) and then concentrating on the important bits, mentally discarding the rest.  The swing thought should be the same, regardless of what's been said, so learn to empty your mind of everything but the key thought(s) for that particular shot.

Expand  

Yeah, this is really something I've been trying to work on.  I still can't clear that very last thought introduced before I swing yet.  

Also I still have this weird issue where I stand over certain chips and for some reason I can't get myself into the correct setup (especially after a duff).  Admittedly I'm in the middle of a Swing change that has my setup bumping my hip toward the target, but that then conflicts with my typical chip shot that has more weight on my front foot and my hip more back to neutral.  I'm thinking I duffed both chips because I was in between the two setups and it pushed the bottom of my chip back and made it very steep.

I was trying to get that straight on the chip where all this happened and just have the thought of keeping weight forward and turning through then my thought got sidetracked with this other stuff.  It's a lot to try to think about and get right in the middle of competition.  Also hadn't had that specific duff type chipping problem in a while so it just cropped up.  Think I have that figured out now though..

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by MattM

[TN94z]

It has already been answered that there is no rules issue going on. These guys are for sure out there. At my club, there are tons of them. And they really get vocal if it gives them an advantage when money is on the line. I admit that if you aren't playing your best, these comments just add to the fire. But you have to step back, focus on the shot at hand, focus on the pre-shot routine, and this should help you forget about the comments. Then when you execute a good shot from the lie that your opponent stated he would hate to be in, that should shut them up a bit. Unfortunately, at my club anyway, having the shots speak for themselves is really the only way to fight these guys. You could always dish it back out as well. Who knows, they may get rattled very easy. From my experience, many of them do.