Bridgestone's New Dimples (e12 Contact)

[iacas]

In addition to what Scott said, I'll remind everyone again that we're often talking about a few yards.

I can play a Callaway SuperSoft or whatever the firmest ball out there is, and notice very little difference. The "lower compression balls for slower swingers" is marketing. At best, it's a few yards. At worst, that's a few yards in the wrong direction.

[Zippo]

Thanks, @boogielicious. I hear what you are saying and am not doubting that you believe it to be true but I am still asking for data - not blanket statements that may or may not be accurate. Do you have any links showing what you're indicating that you can point me to? That would be very helpful as I can't seem to find them. I will believe when I can see the data. Until then, I have to go with the data I have as I'm sure you understand...

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Zippo said:

am not doubting that you believe it to be true

Do you "believe" that 2 + 2 = 4?

There's not really "data" out there to be had, because the ball manufacturers have it, and they keep it to themselves. Where they sometimes release data, it's often under the veil of marketing.

Scott "believes" because what he said is factual. Not an opinion, or a myth, or a hypothesis.

And again, we're talking about a few yards, often in the wrong direction.

4 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Until then, I have to go with the data I have as I'm sure you understand...

You don't have any data.

[StuM]

@ZippoI do not know if this would give you the data you are looking for or if it would support or disprove what some may be saying but this is my suggestion.  Get three dozen balls.  One dozen very high compression, once medium and one low compression.  Go to a range with Trackman and hit the balls with your driver.  Use same swing each time, do not try to overpower the shots, just swing your normal swing.  Look at the average distance for each.  Assuming you have fairly consistent clubhead speed, you most likely do, this should show you the difference between the different compression balls based on your swing.  You can then pick the ball best for you and ignore all of the claims on how compression and clubhead speed may or may not correlate.  All that should matter is which works for you and all other studies, data and/or marketing hype are irrelevant.

[saevel25]

Golf Digest use to do some testing where they would publish the wedge spin rate versus the driver spin rate. The difference in driver spin rate at the extremes is like 400-500 rpm. The difference in wedge spin rates can be over 5000 rpm. The primary difference, or grouping of golf balls is cover stock. Urethane covers were tightly grouped at the high end of wedge spin rate. Even within that grouping driver spin rates was about 300 rpm difference. Cover stock influences spin rate for wedge shots way more than it does for driver spin rates. 

The harder you hit the ball, the more the core effects the ball versus the cover. I highly doubt dimple design drastically influences things like compression and ball speed. It is primarily aerodynamics and spin rates (if anything at all). 

If you got to Titleist website and just read the marketing stuff for the Pro V1x

Core: For more ball speed
Softer Cover: For short game control and feel
Dimple Design: For better Aerdynamics

 

[boogielicious]

11 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Thanks, @boogielicious. I hear what you are saying and am not doubting that you believe it to be true but I am still asking for data - not blanket statements that may or may not be accurate. Do you have any links showing what you're indicating that you can point me to? That would be very helpful as I can't seem to find them. I will believe when I can see the data. Until then, I have to go with the data I have as I'm sure you understand...

I hear what you are saying as well. I am a skeptic too. I was discussing the basic parameters of golf ball performance characteristics and what they mean. But golf ball flight is more complex because it also involves how we swing. 

The problem we have as consumers is getting accurate, objective data of golf ball tests with robust test methods that include all those parameters and in the swing speeds we play at. Places like My Golf Spy and Golf magazine do some testing, but it is with limited data sets. The OEMs do a lot of testing but only share what they want.

We can test balls too, but we don’t have all the time and money in the world and the course open to ourselves. This makes it a challenge.

I’ve tried a lot of balls and have settled on what I like for performance and cost. But I’m sure other balls would suit me as well.
 

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I’ve tried a lot of balls and have settled on what I like for performance and cost. But I’m sure other balls would suit me as well.

For me, I stick with three brands. 

Bridgestone, Snell, Titleist 

Over the past years they have all performed the same for me. They tend to be more consistent in ball flight and fit my swing well. The difference in the spin and low spin version of their premium golf balls is close to non important when you consider how much your swing influences the golf shot (few hundred RPM's versus 500+ rpms)

This is just through trial and error. If I try a new golf ball, I stick with it for a few months to get a good understanding of what it does. 

[bweiss711]

Data.  Lots of it.  Already posted in this thread.

The Best Golf Balls | Golf Ball Buyer's Guide | MyGolfSpy

---

Always play your best game. Read the Golf Ball Buyer's Guide from MyGolf Spy to always get the best golf balls. Read more so you can improve your game!

 

They used a robot at 115 mph swing speed and 85 swing speed.  This graph charts Ball Speed vs Compression.  When you're using a robot with a fixed swing speed, ball speed is going to be your best indicator of rebound effect of the ball.  At 115 mph swing speed there is tight correlation between ball speed and compression.  At 85 mph, its not as tight, but still clearly correlated.  So, a firmer ball will basically always rebound with a higher ball speed.

 

115 mph swing speed.

 

85 mph swing speed.

[saevel25]

So compression matters more for high swing speeds (nearly 4 mph difference from top to bottom) versus slower swing speeds (2 mph difference). 

[bweiss711]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

So compression matters more for high swing speeds (nearly 4 mph difference from top to bottom) versus slower swing speeds (2 mph difference). 

In terms of ball speed, apparently so.  But in terms of ball flight, and therefore distance, ball speed is just one component.

[boogielicious]

4 hours ago, bweiss711 said:

Data.  Lots of it.  Already posted in this thread.

The Best Golf Balls | Golf Ball Buyer's Guide | MyGolfSpy

---

Always play your best game. Read the Golf Ball Buyer's Guide from MyGolf Spy to always get the best golf balls. Read more so you can improve your game!

 

They used a robot at 115 mph swing speed and 85 swing speed.  This graph charts Ball Speed vs Compression.  When you're using a robot with a fixed swing speed, ball speed is going to be your best indicator of rebound effect of the ball.  At 115 mph swing speed there is tight correlation between ball speed and compression.  At 85 mph, its not as tight, but still clearly correlated.  So, a firmer ball will basically always rebound with a higher ball speed.

 

115 mph swing speed.

 

85 mph swing speed.

I read this when you posted it before. It is a good article. They didn’t tell us how many samples per ball were done, but they did tell use it was randomized. That is promising. 
 

For @Zippo

Quote

3. A SOFT GOLF BALL IS A SLOW GOLF BALL

A soft ball is a slow ball; it’s that simple. If you are playing a “soft” golf ball, it’s probably costing you distance off the tee (unless you swing under 85 MPH) and spin around the green.

A growing segment within the market, the soft (or low compression) segment of the market includes familiar balls like Callaway Chrome Soft, Wilson DUO, Bridgestone Tour B RXS, and Titleist AVX.

Firmer balls are faster, generally longer, and as an added benefit to many golfers, they spin more around the green.

 

 

[Zippo]

7 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I hear what you are saying as well. I am a skeptic too. I was discussing the basic parameters of golf ball performance characteristics and what they mean. But golf ball flight is more complex because it also involves how we swing. 

The problem we have as consumers is getting accurate, objective data of golf ball tests with robust test methods that include all those parameters and in the swing speeds we play at. Places like My Golf Spy and Golf magazine do some testing, but it is with limited data sets. The OEMs do a lot of testing but only share what they want.

We can test balls too, but we don’t have all the time and money in the world and the course open to ourselves. This makes it a challenge.

I’ve tried a lot of balls and have settled on what I like for performance and cost. But I’m sure other balls would suit me as well.
 

Thanks, @boogielicious I appreciate the reasoned reply.

[Billy Z]

Anybody tried these balls and have some input?

e12 Contact

 

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Anybody tried these balls and have some input?

e12 Contact

 

Well, the TV commercial is impressive.  I can get 38% more contact if I shank the ball...

[ChetlovesMer]

29 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Anybody tried these balls and have some input?

e12 Contact

 

I've played them for the two rounds I've got in this year.

Here's my take: They are fine. They play a lot like the ball they are targeting, which is the Titleist Velocity Balls, if you've ever played those. They are about the same price as Velocity as well. They feel way better off the putter then do the Velocity. I think the Velocity feels like you are hitting a stone when putting. I also think they are better than Velocity around the greens. I'm not a high spin player, but I personally can't get those Velocity balls to spin at all around the green. 

Overall, they are a really good distance ball. Better than most of the balls in that category. They aren't going to replace PROV1 or any of the real premium balls. But by the same token they are only 2/3 the price of those premium balls. They very much remind me of the old Taylormade TP/Black, if you remember those. 

I only wish they came in Orange as that seems to be the color that's easiest for my old eyes to see. 

[IowaGreg]

I like and use the Yellow E12s, haven't tried the E12 Contact yet..........

Best way to find out - Buy a box, see how YOU like them.  

[dennyjones]

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I only wish they came in Orange as that seems to be the color that's easiest for my old eyes to see. 

Orange, really?   That is one the most difficult for me to see, especially in the fall.

The simulator I used this winter used those on occasion.   I don't know that I could tell you much about the ball playing on the simulator.  The numbers don't always match up with real world.   They felt fine and putted fine but you can definitely tell the difference between a Pro V or a good Snell.   For my game, I'd give them a try.

Edited March 24, 2021 by dennyjones

[ChetlovesMer]

5 minutes ago, dennyjones said:

Orange, really?   That is one the most difficult for me to see, especially in the fall.

Yeah, I don't know what it is, but the matte orange just works for me. I generally play the Volvik Vivid Sherbet color. I don't know why but I can really see it well by comparison to almost everything else I've tried.