Move Forward One Tee Box If You're Not Scoring +10 or Better, Your Thoughts?

[Chris Stewart]

I'm curious what you all think about this.  By this, I should find the Red tees quickly and stay there for awhile. 😅  And you know, I'm not even sure that's a bad idea.  I think I'd enjoy it quite a bit.  I replied via Twitter with my details and our tee box data, and I'm hoping he gives me insight into which tees he'd recommend I play from.  For reference, my reply was: 

"25 hdcp, going up, tight course, avg 6 (!) penalties (tee shots). Plan to leave the 1W at home for awhile.

• Black - 72.6/137, 6695
• Blue - 70.6/133, 6269
• White - 69.1/130, 5957
• Gold - 67.1/125, 5336
• Red - 64.2/118, 4943"

Lastly, if you're on Twitter and not following Lou, I would highly recommend giving him a follow.  Regardless of how you feel about his takes, they're thought provoking and almost always backed by data.

 

[dennyjones]

I completely agree with the fun part, I'm not sure about the 10 over or better for 25% of your rounds.   Looking at my scores this year, I only have 5 rounds out of 25 that are that good so I guess I fall short of 25%.   I can't argue with his logic.     

A lot depends upon the course.  I occasionally play a little longer just for a different perspective of the course.   

[mohearn]

Why not try it (play up one teebox)? I did and got 5 birdies in a round, was fun. I *never* get 5 birdies, what a feeling! 

From a different thread @DaveP043 mentioned something like HCP + age >= 80, then play up a tee. Feels like that's a pretty good metric too just thinking about folks I know playing and what tees they play, or ought to play.

[iacas]

If it's just about fun, great.

If it's about learning how to play golf, etc., then there are issues with that idea.

[Club Rat]

I agree with others about the part of moving up and having fun or if Pace of Play is hindered when playing longer yardages.
However I also feel, my most enjoyable rounds are when I hit every club in my bag.
And, golf is supposed to be challenging and it's a hard game to play well.

Most players want to improve and often playing up will help ones game in certain aspects.
Competitions could be played for certain abilities at various course setups and they would 
only compete against everyone at the shorter course setups.
But many events are setup at lets say "Normal" Mens Tees and often better players play at longer yardages.

So IMO, it basically up to individuals to decide what will help they game and become better.

[mohearn]

Got me thinking, how long (short) would a course need to be to allow me to shoot even par for, say, 25% of my rounds.

[StuM]

54 minutes ago, mohearn said:

Got me thinking, how long (short) would a course need to be to allow me to shoot even par for, say, 25% of my rounds.

For me that would be a putt-putt course😜

[dagolfer18]

I disagree. That would mean I move up to the golds on courses, since I typically alternate between blue and white. I’m a 13 handicap who enjoys the challenge from the blue tees and trying to go low from the whites.

[darthweasel]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

If it's just about fun, great.

If it's about learning how to play golf, etc., then there are issues with that idea.

wouldn't it not necessarily even be all that helpful in scoring'? I have played some par 3 courses and i am not sure I score all that much better there than a full relatively short course. I feel like at some point there are diminishing returns in an overall course length.

 

I wholeheartedly buy into the "hit it as far as you can every shot" philosophy, but I also find that playing say...an executive course with some 300 yard straight par 4s my scoring is not necessarily any worse than a flat out par 3 as at some point that second shot to get on the green (or third if I go full munchkin mode) and the putts almost equate. 

 

Playing a 4943 yard set of tees as per the OP, feels like the gains would be pretty marginal at that point. I could be wrong but just feels like at some point, shorter is not going to solve issues..my most recent round I got the mini-yips, my approach was -.32 and my short game was -,45, my puting + .002 strokes gained. Shorter doesn't feel like it will help that...hitting a chip close would. lol. the very shot I had been working on...just not those circumstances (rubbed into a weed that caught the clubhead)

[StuM]

36 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

wouldn't it not necessarily even be all that helpful in scoring'? I have played some par 3 courses and i am not sure I score all that much better there than a full relatively short course. I feel like at some point there are diminishing returns in an overall course length.

 

I wholeheartedly buy into the "hit it as far as you can every shot" philosophy, but I also find that playing say...an executive course with some 300 yard straight par 4s my scoring is not necessarily any worse than a flat out par 3 as at some point that second shot to get on the green (or third if I go full munchkin mode) and the putts almost equate. 

 

Playing a 4943 yard set of tees as per the OP, feels like the gains would be pretty marginal at that point. I could be wrong but just feels like at some point, shorter is not going to solve issues..my most recent round I got the mini-yips, my approach was -.32 and my short game was -,45, my puting + .002 strokes gained. Shorter doesn't feel like it will help that...hitting a chip close would. lol. the very shot I had been working on...just not those circumstances (rubbed into a weed that caught the clubhead)

I would agree for the most part.  Most of my bad scores have nothing to do with the length of the course.  It is the Slices to OB, chunks,, blades, etc. that screw me up.  A shorter course will help a little as my good drives will be much closer to the hole but does nothing to help on the slices to OB or the bladed pitch shots that sail over the green.  

[mcanadiens]

I've been playing with some older guys lately and figure it is easier just playing the senior tees with them instead of insisting they wait for me to hit from the whites.

I'd say its probably worth a couple of strokes per nine for me. Like @StuM said, most of the trouble is due to the big misses and not length. Still, even I will square up a couple drives per round. When that happens, some of those holes become a wedge approach instead of a 7I or 8I. One of our par fives becomes reachable in two for me if I string two of my best.

 

 

[mohearn]

15 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

One of our par fives becomes reachable in two for me if I string two of my best.

Yeah, my experience too. I can't really reach most par 5's in two, ever. But playing up, maybe driver - 4 iron I can.  Putting for eagle was new to me (I missed).  Was a good lesson for me, certainly highlighted areas in short game/putting that I need to improve if I want to shoot par. Golf is funny, you change one thing and it exposes other areas to work on. 

[pganapathy]

16 hours ago, mohearn said:

Got me thinking, how long (short) would a course need to be to allow me to shoot even par for, say, 25% of my rounds.

Unless you are a mid to low single digit handicap golfer, moving to the forward tees isn't really going to get you a level par round, unless it makes the course so short that you can get onto greens in or under regulation with ease.  The truth is most players in the double digit handicap range tend to lose shots around the green

[Shindig]

Playing a round from a more forward tee box is fun (as can be moving back one box).  There's also some difference between someone shooting mid-90s from the second-to-back tees at, say, Oakmont versus at a local muni.  

I remember many years ago, we had a TST "go out and play" event on 9/18 (I am not sure which year, but what a great day!) from forward tees.  I was about a 25 handicap at the time and hit something like 4 GIR in a row at one point -- that was fun.  

[RWC]

I made decision to move up to senior tees for this season of league play (age 69). After 8 rounds, my average score is almost 3 shots better than last year from white tees. What I've found is that forward tees have created different challenges for good scoring as compare to white tees. With the white tees a typical par 4 was driver, 7 wood and then chip for a par/bogey. First putt was typically in the 10-15 foot range. When I moved up to forward tees, my GIR improved dramatically. This move highlighted challenges in my lag putting (typical first putt in the 30 ft range) and ability to hit shorter irons (7-PW) on the mark. I still use the 7 wood on par 5's, long par 3's and 4's so am still using all my clubs.

Overall, I am enjoying the move forward more than I expected. handicap is still same (12) due to lower course rating for forward tees but enjoyment factor is definitely up!

 

Bob

 

[BurritoFightClub]

I think this is a smart idea. If you're brand new to the sport, there's no reason to play from the tips, or the second longest tee's. If you're a 20 hcp who can pipe it 270+ yards, you should still be playing from more forward tee's. 

[mdl]

I've always like the rule of thumb that the right tees for you are at most 36 * stock 5i distance. For me that means I "should" be playing 7200 yards. That's always felt right in terms of if I play each hole well then I'm really forced to play every club in the bag and have, for example, par 4s where my approach is everything from 60˚ to 6i or more.

But even though I have the distance I'm nowhere near good enough to play that long! I tend to choose tees in the 6500-6800 yard range, sometimes 6300-6500. I'll move back to the tips if I start shooting a high percentage of my rounds in the 70s at medium to hard courses!

[Shindig]

The thought occurs to me:  do courses not list suggested tees by handicap ranges anymore?