Is This Ethical?

[boogielicious]

I would not do that. I would have just asked to pay for the sauces.  What you’ve done is basically con McD into thinking you bought their nuggets and got free sauces. It’s still petty theft. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

It’s all good, but you are a hypocrite.  If someone plays against the rules of golf, in your opinion, they are playing something other than golf.

On real world topics, YOU define what theft is and you stand behind it, no matter what the true definition is.

I knew you would not retract calling me a thief.

I get it.  You run this place.  

Settle down, pal. You’re the only one being aggressive or rude here.

By definition they aren’t playing “golf” (a game is defined by the rules of that game) and by definition you didn’t have a right to the sauces. You lied by omission to deceive them into giving you the sauces. I’m using the “real world” definition.

I keep offering that it’s a tiny amount, but that feeling isn’t anger. I’d wager it’s guilt.

If anything my stance on “not golf” and “stealing” is consistent, not hypocritical. One inch (or 54 cents) across the line is enough.

P.S. 9-1 right now.

[SEMI_Duffer]

11 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

I would appreciate an apology for being called a thief and accused of stealing.

... This situation is not theft based on the definition.

IANAL, but, I'd wager a lawyer would disagree.

Quote

False pretenses, also known as “obtaining property by false pretenses,” is a crime that is a combination of fraud and larceny where an individual lies or makes misrepresentations in order to obtain the property of another. False pretenses is very similar to the theft crime of “larceny by trick,” which involves convincing someone to transfer you possession of their property through deception.

It's true you didn't explicitly present any false representations.  You didn't claim you bought Chicken McNuggets and didn't get any sauces.  But, IMO, by failing to explicitly state you wanted them for chicken nuggets acquired from a competitor, you allowed them to reasonably assume such was the case.

It's known as "lying by omission."

11 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

 I’ll bet your ego will not allow you to apologize to me today for calling me a thief.

This is an example of arguing in bad faith.  Specifically: Argumentum ad hominem.

 

[Shindig]

26 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

This situation is not theft based on the definition.  I’ll bet your ego will not allow you to apologize to me today for calling me a thief.

There's a thing called "theft by deception" and your first post is an example of it. 

Also, for voting:  does "yes" mean "yes this was ethical" or "yes, this was unethical"?  I figure I should find out before casting my vote, although my above statement probably shows where I stand.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Shindig said:

Also, for voting:  does "yes" mean "yes this was ethical" or "yes, this was unethical"?  I figure I should find out before casting my vote, although my above statement probably shows where I stand.

The topic title asks “Is this ethical?” and everyone but the OP voted “no” so that probably answers your question.

[Shindig]

33 minutes ago, iacas said:

The topic title asks “Is this ethical?” and everyone but the OP voted “no” so that probably answers your question.

Indeed it does, thank you!

[woodzie264]

4 hours ago, boil3rmak3r said:

Stupid debate that I will set a poll up for.

The other day, I bought fiery chicken nuggets at Burger King.  I don’t like any of the BK sauces, so I then drove next door to McDonald’s, went inside, and said that I have nuggets but no sauce.  They gave me two packets of spicy mustard sauce (which is my favorite).

My wife said I was unethical doing that.  I debated her.  At McD’s, I never said I bought THEIR nuggets or that they shorted me sauce.  I simply said I HAD nuggets and needed sauce.  If they simply ASSUMED they shorted me and did not ask any clarifying questions, who am I to argue getting the sauces for free?

What say you?

I am responding without reading others’ response so as to give my own uninfluenced opinion.  The McD’s sauces are provided in good faith for those who make purchases at McD’s. You did not make a purchase at McD’s and so the sauces are not for you.  I would argue that you were intentionally vague and while you didn’t tell a falsehood, you were intentionally deceptive in the manner you acquired said sauces. I’d equate that to stealing. Just my two cents that prob isn’t worth that. 
 

Addendum:

After reading the previous responses, it looks like I am in line with those who equate this with stealing.  Don’t ask a question for which you don’t want the answer. 

[woodzie264]

2 hours ago, boil3rmak3r said:

It’s all good, but you are a hypocrite.  If someone plays against the rules of golf, in your opinion, they are playing something other than golf.

On real world topics, YOU define what theft is and you stand behind it, no matter what the true definition is.

I knew you would not retract calling me a thief.

I get it.  You run this place.  

 

FYI - plenty of folks disagree with Iacas. This is a forum where people come to discuss their opinions and ideas. If you express one, be prepared to back it up. 
 

I don’t see where anyone answered with vitriol. We simply answered the question you asked and backed up our thoughts…which you asked for. Don’t be upset that you asked for our opinions just because most feel differently.  

[phillyk]

I played golf somewhere. Ran out of tees. Went to the nearby nicer public course, grabbed their tees from the scorecard bin, because it’s “free” even though I wasn’t playing there and then left. All good right?

[woodzie264]

1 minute ago, phillyk said:

I played golf somewhere. Ran out of tees. Went to the nearby nicer public course, grabbed their tees from the scorecard bin, because it’s “free” even though I wasn’t playing there and then left. All good right?

Good analogy 

[StuM]

I voted “No,” i.e. that it was unethical.

It was intentionally misleading to get something for free and regardless of the amount it was wrong.

[Phil McGleno]

You should have listened to your wife-It was unethical and if it was worth $540 you'd be prosecuted.-Imagine if I went into a different car dealer and said 'I have a car but I did not get the floor mats'-And misled them into giving me floor mats from their store.

Might be a bad analogy-But your wife was right.-You should listen to her more.

[StuM]

1 hour ago, Phil McGleno said:

Might be a bad analogy-But your wife was right.-You should listen to her more.

My wife tells me that all the time

[saevel25]

I talked with two friends of mine about this last night over a good board game night. Both of them said it is unethical to mislead them into giving you free sauces. Two more No's 😛 

[mcanadiens]

@boil3rmak3r The ethical approach would have been to explain to the McDonalds employees that you prefer their sauce to Burger King's and if you could acquire a couple packets. 

The McDonalds staffer might well have given you the packets (I don't normally eat there, so I don't know). Otherwise, they tell you the price and you pay it. 

It's such a minor amount that clearly it doesn't bother you. It probably wouldn't bother the McDonalds people much either. However, it is definitely not ethical. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by mcanadiens

[Missouri Swede]

12 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

@boil3rmak3r The ethical approach would have been to explain to the McDonalds employees that you prefer their sauce to Burger King's and if you could acquire a couple packets. 

The McDonalds staffer might well have given you the packets (I don't normally eat there, so I don't know). Otherwise, they tell you the price and you pay it.

I hope this is the approach I would have taken. Walk in with a dollar bill in hand, say I prefer their sauce and ask to buy a couple. They’ll probably reach under the counter and grab a couple and say “here ya go” and not ring it up. Then I put the dollar (or three) in whatever donation jar is on the counter. “Thanks.”

Edited July 17, 2023 by Missouri Swede

[GolfLug]

20 hours ago, boil3rmak3r said:

My wife said I was unethical doing that. 

Yes. I am sure McD factors in freeloaders so I'm going to pay for it next time I'm there. 

[snapfade]

As a shareholder of McDonalds (NYSE:MCD) and Burger King (NYSE:QSR) I look at it a different way. You are stealing from me. I do not, nor ever will eat at McDonalds, nor Burger King but suckers and fat people do and I appreciate them for doing so when I receive my dividend payments. Loss prevention affects the bottom line. There is a pre-planned ratio for sauces for any give size of nuggets, its figured into the overhead, budget, inventory. When sauces are distributed above that pre-defined ratio it eats into the profit. A penny here, a penny there kind of thing. Please continue to visit Burger King on a regular basis I appreciate your business, but don't scam McDonalds out of the sauce.