Internal Out of Bounds (Yay or Nay?)

[saevel25]

So, this might be a hot topic, but should internal OB exist in golf? 

It is coming up as a topic with The Open this week since part of the course has internal OB. 

Why this controversial course feature could help decide Open Championship

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Royal Liverpool Golf Club has internal out of bounds running up the right side of multiple holes. It could loom large come Sunday.

My opinion is, I have no issue with internal OB. 

[colin007]

If it's done for safety constraints, then I think it's fine. If the rule is in place to restrict how someone can play a hole "imaginatively" then nah I don't like that

[mcanadiens]

I would think it should be a case-by-case basis. Generally, it ought to be avoided where possible, but there may be some very good, practical reasons for internal OB.

The linked story indicates the OB has to do with the member driving range.  It makes sense.  

As a player there are only a few other examples that I can think of. One of them was simply silly (the golf pro's sense of pride) and was eventually done away with. Never have figured out why the other even exists. 

 

[p1n9183]

I think that is OK when you want to enforce a player to play the hole as intended. 

In my club we have a Par 5, dogleg left with water hazard on the left only on the driver and water hazard on the right all along the hole.
To the left (of the hazard on the left) is another hole and little to no trees. Between the hazard and the other hole there is an internal OB. There´s definitively a huge advantage playing the hole from the other hole fairway, not only the hole became shorter but the other fairway have a hugh landing area for the driver.  

[iacas]

I don't have the problem with it that many have. It's almost always done as a safety thing, but can also be done as a time savings thing by encouraging provisionals or re-tees.

[Seeking70s]

I actually like it for pro golf - it is one of the few ways you can strongly disincentivize pros from bombing/wailing on the golf ball. While that is an amazing skill, it is not the most entertaining to watch - longer approach shots are more enjoyable to me. 

For recreational golfers I tend to find it a bit too penal for strategic interest in most cases. OB is such a severe price to pay that it causes optimal targets off the tee to be somewhat wacky at times. External OB is a necessary evil - the course needs to end somewhere. Internal OB when necessary for safety is another necessary evil. Otherwise I tend to think it is the result of poor planning / routing / layout.

[bkuehn1952]

I agree with most of the others here that are okay with internal OB for safety reasons. 

[CarlSpackler]

Sure. I may not like it, but courses should be allowed to do it. If your typical muni did it, most players would ignore it like they often do with off course OB. 

[phan52]

Our course was the site of a PGA Tour event from 1963-1980. The first 5-6 years they allowed players to hit to adjacent holes, the third and 15th. It allowed them to hit away from trouble and give them a better angle to the green. It was not safe for both players and the fans, so the Tour decided to place OB stakes between the holes to stop it and it remained the rule for the balance of the tournament. It was never used for member play, although the young guns have figured it out and there is a lot of "FORE" going on. 

[TourSpoon]

I have only seen it once between to adjoining holes going in opposite direction that doglegged together like a pair (Outer hole dogleg right, inner hole dogleg left). When playing the outer hole, you could hit it to the inner fairway and have a playable shot, but with golfers coming in the opposite direction, it is dangerous. Internal OB solved it. 

I generally don't have a problem with it. It makes sense at The Open with the members driving range and adds a new level of risk and reward. For those who don't like it, just don't hit it there. 

Edited July 19, 2023 by TourSpoon
Clarification

[StuM]

I voted "Yay".  As many said above there are valid reasons for it.  As for the internal OB on Royal Liverpool it is the club's practice area which you would want to keep random balls out of and for the tournament it is being used for grandstands, tents, etc so again, a good reason to keep it out of play.  The only thing I question is from the picture below there is a fair amount of space between the OB Line and the grandstand that looks to me like it could have been in play.  Maybe move the OB line closer to the grandstands.  It looks to be rather penal heather so I would not want to intentionally hit into it.

 

 

[RayG]

When it is appropriate for the conditions and/or design elements, sure- I have no issues. As many have said- "Don't hit it there".

We have a course with 2 sharp doglegs. Both have Internal OB for the direction of play of those two holes. On the adjacent holes, OB doesn't apply. It's for safety reasons more than anything. But- 90% of people ignore it and play them. One hole has a green tucked into the corner of the dogleg and is a 250+ carry over the green to clear it and the junk on the far side to get to the fairway. And yet, people will just play where it lands when the slice it- sometimes while people are on the green or even FROM the green. See below-

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by RayG

[Golfingdad]

I'm not a fan, but I get the reasoning when they're doing it for safety reasons.  I'd prefer, though, that they put up physical barriers (a net or trees) instead, because Internal OB disproportionally hurts bad golfers; those poor souls who simply want to hit it straight down the correct fairway and not risk hurting anybody but struggle to do so. 🙂

And on the picture posted above about the British Open 18th hole it seems entirely unnecessary and pointless.  I can't imagine that the members are practicing between the 18th fairway and the grandstands this week?

[RayG]

15 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

And on the picture posted above about the British Open 18th hole it seems entirely unnecessary and pointless.  I can't imagine that the members are practicing between the 18th fairway and the grandstands this week?

Well- in this case, that area on 18 is OB for the Members all the time as part of the course.  I don't see any complaints about the internal OB on the 3rd hole (1st hole for members) that borders the same area.  Why should the OB be 'waived' just because the Pro's are in town? It isn't like they aren't using that area- it's part of the Hospitality Village. 

 

[mailman]

Not a fan and think they should be avoided at all costs.

The member driving range sounds more like an excuse to just close of an area otherwise playable, given members wont be on there during the day using the range.

[Pretzel]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:06 PM, iacas said:

I don't have the problem with it that many have. It's almost always done as a safety thing, but can also be done as a time savings thing by encouraging provisionals or re-tees.

Just the other weekend I scored for a Korn Ferry tournament in Colorado and in my group on Sunday one player waited twice on the teebox for an adjacent fairway to clear so he could intentionally play into the "wrong" hole's fairway for a preferred angle into the green. I can absolutely see the pace of play arguments for internal OB markings, even ignoring the safety aspects entirely.

[StuM]

1 hour ago, mailman said:

Not a fan and think they should be avoided at all costs.

The member driving range sounds more like an excuse to just close of an area otherwise playable, given members wont be on there during the day using the range.

I think I read the area is close to 12 Acres, so it is quite large (Can't find that artical now) and the course wraps around the driving range.  Sure, no members will be on range this week, it is filled with tents, portable toilets, ect.  Do you really want to have the players playing balls in there?  

2 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Just the other weekend I scored for a Korn Ferry tournament in Colorado and in my group on Sunday one player waited twice on the teebox for an adjacent fairway to clear so he could intentionally play into the "wrong" hole's fairway for a preferred angle into the green. I can absolutely see the pace of play arguments for internal OB markings, even ignoring the safety aspects entirely.

Apolgies in advance for OT.  I'm curious, how did he score when he did that and did it really matter?

To stay OT: I agree, the pace of play argument for internal OB is valid.

[Pretzel]

18 minutes ago, StuM said:

Apolgies in advance for OT.  I'm curious, how did he score when he did that and did it really matter?

He birdied one of the holes (had an eagle look) and parred the second. Gave him a much wider fairway to hit off the tee both times and more green to work with in front of the flagstick for the day's pin positions, which was helpful during a week that played exceptionally firm (was a dry and hot week for the tournament itself, on already-firm turf) with equally exceptionally long rough due to very heavy rains throughout Colorado this spring (they got more rain in the month of June alone than they usually get for an entire calendar year).

On the par 5 first it made more sense to me, just because he really did need the extra room to land and stop the ball when hitting a 3 or 5-wood approach over the ditch short of the green. The green itself is not very deep front to back, and the shape is a bit of a diagonal strip from short left to long right following the curve of the ditch with a shaved apron behind it on the right that feeds down into the cabbage and the green itself sloping to the ditch in front. Going more than 3-4 yards long of the green to a back right pin position often leaves you with a 30-40 yard shot out of thick rough to a slippery green with a ditch if you hit that pitch long. Him hitting it into the 15th fairway avoided the pot bunkers that flank either side of 1 fairway (with a forced carry of 290-300 to clear them) and makes the green narrower but much, much deeper. Missing right into the ditch is okay because the ditch is pretty dry and thin on the right side of the green, missing left is also okay because the hill back behind the green will feed the ball back towards the putting surface. I don't know that it actually gave him a better outcome, but when I asked him he said he did it to help eliminate the miss over the green on that back-right pin position with the shaved aprons that feed the ball into a long and difficult short game shot with any misses (left, right, or short) being at least no worse than they'd be from the intended fairway if not better off.

On the par 4 18th it seemed marginal at best to me really. He did it because the main fairway squeezes in between two pot bunkers again in the landing area, with the 17th fairway being massively wide at the same distance and downhill from the teebox (more distance off the tee). Makes the approach a bit more uphill, but also gave an angle to better avoid the pot bunker short of the green depending on pin position. I don't think he really gained anything there, but I could at least see how maybe he thought it was worthwhile to be more likely to hit fairway and have a slightly shorter approach shot when the usual 2nd is from 200-220 anyways on that hole and I've seen pros only advance the ball ~15 feet using a wedge out of the rough on 18 before (it grows real thick in that area).

Pace of play wasn't terrible since the timing worked out reasonably well, but it was still a short wait on each tee to confirm the fairways were clear each time. As long as on-course OB is clearly marked and communicated where/when it applies, I have no issues with it at all really.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Pretzel