Plumb Bobbing (Putting) Master Thread

[softjones]

Just now, DaveP043 said:

Please don't misinterpret.  I see nothing at all wrong or stupid with finding a vertical reference, and you're obviously aware that you need to have your putter in the right position to get a proper vertical reference.  If plumb-bobbing helps you to locate an intermediate target along your intended line, that makes sense to me.  I've simply never seen any explanation of how plumb-bobbing can possibly determine (or confirm) the break, other than the (possible) subconscious tendency to stand on the low side of the line.  Just a guess on my part, but if you do have that subconscious tendency, you're probably reading the slope with your feet without even thinking about it.  

Yea I do read the slope, and yes I like have confirmation.

Also, if I'm really having a hard time with the direction of the slope I bob both sides of the ball. Whichever looks closest to what the break should be I use that one. It's not perfect but helps me strike the ball confident. Occasionally I'm just flat out wrong ha.

 

I have work to do and would like to learn every method possible. Every putt is different. And sometimes bobbing does nothing to help.

[Shindig]

13 minutes ago, softjones said:

That said, I don't want to be a hypocrite. I am going to listen to the skeptics here and take a break from using it and see if it really is helping or hindering me.

Either way, flame on folks.

What's to flame?  You're new here and seem to be exactly the kind of person I want to stick around and talk to more.  You came in, offered an opinion, were offered evidence that not only might it be not only incorrect, but hurting your ability to shoot lower scores in golf.  You then decided you wanted to evaluate the evidence.

I thought AimPoint was hokey when I first heard about it.  I wasn't into plumb bobbing, just "reading the line," whatever that meant.  I learned the old way and it's helped me quite a bit, and I'm going to take a lesson in the new (several years old at this point) way before too long.

[softjones]

9 minutes ago, Ernest Jones said:

Lol, hard to argue with that. By my definition of "works", it doesn't. 

Give Aimpoint a serious look. It is just as fast as Bobbing and it does work. I'm a terrible golfer due to a serious lack of time to work on my game, but I regularly astound people with the putts I am capable of making.

I will. I see it used all the time on the moving pictures. Just haven't taken the time needed.

[iacas]

On 6/20/2017 at 11:03 AM, softjones said:

Yea I do read the slope, and yes I like have confirmation.

The thing is… it doesn't really "confirm" anything. It just shows you whether you're standing to the left or right of the straight line from the hole to your ball.

[Mr. Desmond]

On 6/16/2017 at 4:56 PM, Alx said:

@iacasActually it would work, in theory atleast.

Lets assume a few things 1. The putter is hanging vertically 2. The put were hitting is on a steady slope. So a steady break.

You would set up facing the hole behind the ball. Hang the putter infront forming a line between the hole and the ball. 

Now tilt your head till your eyes are level with the ground, the slope essentially. The more you tilt your head the further away from the hole the shaft would "move"(perspective, only visual. youre basically peeking from behind the shaft). 

Haven't found that many putts beyond 7-8 feet with a steady or same slope, or break. I get inconsistencies - the read behind the ball is a "1", then 1/3 of the way, the level is a "3", then it might be "0" nearer the hole, or it could have more slope, which I may read as a "2." 

 

I've got to ask OnePuttLarry from  4gea.com to come on here and tell us how PB works - he wrote a short book on it and touts it all the time, congratulating all the PB who won the previous week.

[David in FL]

9 hours ago, Mr. Desmond said:

 

I've got to ask OnePuttLarry from  4gea.com to come on here and tell us how PB works - he wrote a short book on it and touts it all the time, congratulating all the PB who won the previous week.

That would be great!  I assume he has a thick skin...  

[Mr. Desmond]

On 6/23/2017 at 8:56 AM, David in FL said:

That would be great!  I assume he has a thick skin...  

I've given him scads of discussion - PB v AimPoint.

[Valleygolfer]

On 06/22/2017 at 11:55 PM, Mr. Desmond said:

I've got to ask OnePuttLarry from  4gea.com to come on here and tell us how PB works - he wrote a short book on it and touts it all the time, congratulating all the PB who won the previous week.

There are people that actually win using plumb bobbing?

[Mr. Desmond]

6 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

There are people that actually win using plumb bobbing?

I haven't heard a pro credit PB for a win. But this guy credits the PB Pro with the win, implying and sometimes stating that PB helped him.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[boogielicious]

I think JB Holmes does it. I don't think it helps him at all. His stats are average at best. He may be just one of those guys that's always done it.

[iacas]

http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publications/plumbbob-paper.pdf

Thst study implies that the way to plumb bob is to stand directly on the line with your feet and perpendicular to the slope.

Like this:

 

Now, there are still several problems with this:

• Most people won't stand anything close to perpendicular to the slope - they'll stand "vertically" as they always do. Many people favor leaning one way or the other?
• You're finding the slope at your feet only.
• There's no calibration for the speed of the green (by holding your putter out farther or nearer).
• There's already a bias because even if you stand directly on the line, your dominant eye is off-center.

I had another reason or two but I'm forgetting it right now… but the above further illustrate why I continue to say that the only real thing plumb bobbing can be relied upon is to give you a reference for vertical.

From the PDF's conclusion: "The results from this study indicate that the plumb-bob method is highly inconsistent."

[Ernest Jones]

On 6/22/2017 at 11:55 PM, Mr. Desmond said:

Haven't found that many putts beyond 7-8 feet with a steady or same slope, or break. I get inconsistencies - the read behind the ball is a "1", then 1/3 of the way, the level is a "3", then it might be "0" nearer the hole, or it could have more slope, which I may read as a "2." 

 

I've got to ask OnePuttLarry from  4gea.com to come on here and tell us how PB works - he wrote a short book on it and touts it all the time, congratulating all the PB who won the previous week.

1 - I bought that book 6-7 years ago, and I have taken Aimpoint and Aimpoint Express courses. Not anywhere in the same league, Aimpoint works with incredible precision, PB is like taking a placebo, it may give you (unfounded) confidence in a line, but there is no telling if the line is anywhere near correct.

2 - My Gawd, that is an abysmal attempt at a website...lol.

 

[Mr. Desmond]

11 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

1 - I bought that book 6-7 years ago, and I have taken Aimpoint and Aimpoint Express courses. Not anywhere in the same league, Aimpoint works with incredible precision, PB is like taking a placebo, it may give you (unfounded) confidence in a line, but there is no telling if the line is anywhere near correct.

2 - My Gawd, that is an abysmal attempt at a website...lol.

 

1. I haven't asked for the e-book.

2. You don't care for the old school look?  It's the same as it was in 1997. lol.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[iacas]

This came up again on Facebook, and a good number of instructors who should know better are swearing that "I've plumb bobbed for 30 years, and it works for me."

No. No it doesn't.

[DrMJG]

When I began playing golf in the mid 1960's many people did bobbing.  But then again, most of us had a very simple blade or a bullseye putter.  I was actually taught this in early lessons in the days of my misbegotten adolescence .  By the early 70's, I found this too much of an inexact science and simply crouched down to seen the green in relation to some spot not too far away distance.  Now, with bad knees, I cannot bend a well so I walk back a bit.  Putting has usually been the strength of my golf.  So I have evolved my technique.  Not sure I would be proficient with the geological map reading.  Takes away some of my fun in golf!

Edited August 3, 2018 by DrMJG

[sjduffers]

On 6/25/2017 at 6:00 AM, iacas said:

http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/Publications/plumbbob-paper.pdf

Thst study implies that the way to plumb bob is to stand directly on the line with your feet and perpendicular to the slope.

Like this:

 

Now, there are still several problems with this:

• Most people won't stand anything close to perpendicular to the slope - they'll stand "vertically" as they always do. Many people favor leaning one way or the other?
• You're finding the slope at your feet only.
• There's no calibration for the speed of the green (by holding your putter out farther or nearer).
• There's already a bias because even if you stand directly on the line, your dominant eye is off-center.

I had another reason or two but I'm forgetting it right now… but the above further illustrate why I continue to say that the only real thing plumb bobbing can be relied upon is to give you a reference for vertical.

From the PDF's conclusion: "The results from this study indicate that the plumb-bob method is highly inconsistent."

That's exactly what I was thinking about plumb bobbing, shown in a nice picture/photo. In my mind, PB would only "work" (notwithstanding all the other caveats you mention), if people stood perpendicular to the slope, essentially having already "read" the slope with their feet.

And perhaps that's what happens with many people, when the slope is only very minor, but they sure wouldn't stand that way when the slope is 10 or 20, or 45 degrees. Thankfully, there are not many greens with a 45 degree slope! And nobody needs to pump bob to feel or see it. 

Whether with Aimpoint Express or not, reading the greens with our feet is the best thing we can do as your eyes can easily be deceived. Aimpoint provides a quantitative means of reading the putts and determining the putt lines, but even without it, everyone could easily determine some qualitative read: which way the slope goes and relatively speaking how much. IMHO, experience fills in the gap, ie determines the amount of break or borrow to play for.