Relative Importance of Driving/Approach Shots, Short Game, Putting, etc. (LSW, Mark Broadie, Strokes Gained, etc.)

[Lihu]

I used GolfLogix to track putts for a while but it was a PITA. Used it to track all clubs and it was cumbersome to do while playing.

Yeah, it is a pain to do while playing, and what's funny is that it seems like an easy enough modifications in SW to make it more like game golf.

[iacas]

@david_wedzik and I will be speaking on a panel at the Open Forum Tuesday night before the PGA Show with Mark Broadie, Stuart Leong (shotstohole.com), and someone from GAME Golf.

[Lihu]

@david_wedzik and I will be speaking on a panel at the Open Forum Tuesday night before the PGA Show with Mark Broadie, Stuart Leong (shotstohole.com), and someone from GAME Golf.

Nice.

I'll be in Tampa, FL Tuesday night at 10:00pm, should have scheduled an afternoon arrival.

[14ledo81]

@david_wedzik and I will be speaking on a panel at the Open Forum Tuesday night before the PGA Show with Mark Broadie, Stuart Leong (shotstohole.com), and someone from GAME Golf.

Cool!!!

[tqcishark]

Long game versus short game is a false dilemma.  Some days its one, some days its the other.  For both long and short, course management is the key.  I think to score well you have to be able to make good choices without expending a bunch of mental energy.  For most of us I think, good effortless course management leads to better shots, long and short.  And vice versa...getting in trouble leads to taking risks which often leads to swing tension.  And then short game and long game suffer.

In this light I think its almost unfair to compare regular golf to pro golf.  Pro golfers get to have a caddy slash coach providing advice.  I wonder which pro golfer would be on top if they all had to carry their own bags and make decisions by themselves.

[saevel25]

Long game versus short game is a false dilemma.  Some days its one, some days its the other.  For both long and short, course management is the key.  I think to score well you have to be able to make good choices without expending a bunch of mental energy.  For most of us I think, good effortless course management leads to better shots, long and short.  And vice versa...getting in trouble leads to taking risks which often leads to swing tension.  And then short game and long game suffer.

In this light I think its almost unfair to compare regular golf to pro golf.  Pro golfers get to have a caddy slash coach providing advice.  I wonder which pro golfer would be on top if they all had to carry their own bags and make decisions by themselves.

Not really. For one the long game dictates the short game. Missing away from bunkers for example can make the short game shot much easier. Also, hitting greens negates short game shots. Also, there are more long shots in the game than short game shots. You typically have about 9 to 18 short game shots a round for an amateur. You have 32-36 long shots.

Also, short game technique is much easier to learn than full shots. It is also easier to maintain than the full shot swing. So, the long game should be worked on more because it demands more time and is more important.

Course management is easy. Actually being able to hit the shots required is tougher. So again long game matters more here.

A lot of PGA Tour pro's make the decisions. They just get the yardage from the caddies, or some sort of encouragement to help maintain positive thinking.

[tqcishark]

Not really. For one the long game dictates the short game. Missing away from bunkers for example can make the short game shot much easier. Also, hitting greens negates short game shots. Also, there are more long shots in the game than short game shots. You typically have about 9 to 18 short game shots a round for an amateur. You have 32-36 long shots.

Also, short game technique is much easier to learn than full shots. It is also easier to maintain than the full shot swing. So, the long game should be worked on more because it demands more time and is more important.

Course management is easy. Actually being able to hit the shots required is tougher. So again long game matters more here.

A lot of PGA Tour pro's make the decisions. They just get the yardage from the caddies, or some sort of encouragement to help maintain positive thinking.

short game includes putting, chipping, pitching, sand play, bunker strategies , so its not 9 - 18 and for some of us its not even close.  When you talk about "missing away from bunkers" that is course management.  I don't agree that consistently hitting good shots from a greenside bunker is easier than learning to hit a full shot off the turf or tee.  Course management isn't easy for everyone.

I totally understand the concept that hitting long a straight is sort of a prerequisite to good scores, and I see you are hardover on this point.  I think there are handfulls of techniques and dozens of variations of those techniques in the short game that must be learned. I also think feel shots require a little more concentration but that to is my opinion

[iacas]

I totally understand the concept that hitting long a straight is sort of a prerequisite to good scores, and I see you are hardover on this point.  I think there are handfulls of techniques and dozens of variations of those techniques in the short game that must be learned. I also think feel shots require a little more concentration but that to is my opinion

The closer you get to the hole, the less Separation Value® there is to be had.

[tqcishark]

The closer you get to the hole, the less Separation Value® there is to be had.

okay, you got me.  Can I buy the book on amazon?

[inthehole]

In comparing the average 80-golfer (a golfer who shoots 80) versus the average 100-golfer, Mark Broadie has found that 3 of the 20 shots that separate those golfers are putts. That's 15%, and that means that 85% of the differences in their scores are from shots taken from off the green.

@ iacas ... long game makes total sense when comparing a 100 vs 80 golfer.

Whats the consensus that separates say a mid 80's from a mid 70s golfer ?    Is it still the long game & GIR's ... or does the short game become much  MORE of a factor even at this more advanced level ?

[iacas]

okay, you got me.  Can I buy the book on amazon?

You can get it here if you want. If you don't want, that's fine too.

@ iacas ... long game makes total sense when comparing a 100 vs 80 golfer.

Whats the consensus that separates say a mid 80's from a mid 70s golfer ?    Is it still the long game & GIR's ... or does the short game become much  MORE of a factor even at this more advanced level ?

Long game is a big part of what separates good PGA Tour golfers from other PGA Tour golfers.

Long game accounts for, what, 2/3 of the difference between any golfers of any skill level. Whether it's PGA Tour to a guy who can't break 80 or a scratch golfer to a guy shooting 95 on average, or between a guy shooting 85 and one shooting 79 (on average, of course - specific examples don't always hold of course - my use of the singular "a guy" is intended to be more about the average guy shooting 85 or 79).

[cipher]

@ iacas ... long game makes total sense when comparing a 100 vs 80 golfer.

Whats the consensus that separates say a mid 80's from a mid 70s golfer ?    Is it still the long game & GIR's ... or does the short game become much  MORE of a factor even at this more advanced level ?

Not asking me and I see @iacas just responded, but I will send anyway.  Going from a mid 80s golfer to a high 70s golfer for me has mainly been about improving my GIR.  When I was in the mid/low 80s I was at 33% GIR in 2011.  Last year with a 78.1 scoring average I was somewhere at 46% GIR.

[inthehole]

^ thx guys ... I see improving GIR's still needs to be the focus for my game going into 2015.

[vangator]

Being closer to the green (ie longer off the tee) correlates to GIR.

[Aflighter]

I just shot an 84 on a 6200 yard course par 71. 70.7 rating 130 slope.It was only 40 degrees and my first round in 3 months.Hit ball pretty well but only hit 5 greens and had 35 putts.I had 4 or 5 1 putts and 3 or 4 3 putts.I would say my putting sucked although i made 5 one putts but they were no more than 8 feet away on any of them but the 3 putts were over 25 feet.Any suggestions on what my downfall was?Yes i needed to hit more greens for sure but my putting wasnt too great but thats usually first thing that gets rusty.

[Dave2512]

Hit more GIR. My best rounds always come with a higher than average GIR which is an indication I hit the ball better everywhere on the course that day. That is the one generic stat I can use to gauge how well I played from the tee and everywhere else on the course. It's no coincidence those days rarely have penalty strokes and I hit greens on the par 3's.

[Aflighter]

Hit more GIR. My best rounds always come with a higher than average GIR which is an indication I hit the ball better everywhere on the course that day. That is the one generic stat I can use to gauge how well I played from the tee and everywhere else on the course. It's no coincidence those days rarely have penalty strokes and I hit greens on the par 3's.

Well theres a catch there though.Yes you need to hit greens but you also need to hit it closer to hole than i did today because like i said i 3 putted from over 25 feet so my long putting wasnt getting it done.It was my first round in 3 months so im sure that didnt help.

[Dave2512]

You still stand a better chance to two putt than you do getting up and down. I make strings of bogey because I miss greens. Hit more greens and you will score better. It's not always going to be far from the hole.