Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[NEhomer]

1 hour ago, turtleback said:

No  it really is not close at all if you go blow for blow on stats.  Jack has more majors and that is about it (unless we want to look at pseudo stats like second place finishes).  In what other measurable stat is Jack ahead of Tiger?  In this thread are listings of the many ways Tiger is ahead of Jack, stat-wise.  Winning percentage, winning percentage in majors, margin of winning records (Tiger holds the record in all the majors other than the PGA), POY awards, Vardon trophies, winning streaks, stroke average margin over next best guy, winning streak in majors, cuts made streak, and on and on.  And all that is on the other side is 18>14.  Unless you have something more to back up your claim.

But I think your final comment really tells us, because it is the apotheosis of irrelevance to the point of the thread.  It isn't about who you admire more, particularly when Jack got away with saying some stuff that would make him a virtual pariah in today's 24/7 internet world.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1994-08-21/sports/9408200266_1_nicklaus-blacks-comments

It got some press, but died away quickly.  That wouldn't happen today.

 

Not close at all? Did you mean to type that? I'll concede that I haven't stat-checked sufficiently so if you care to give Tiger the edge that's fine but not even close shows us YOUR bias....and further, tell me about the apotheosis of irrelevance to the point of the thread surrounding your link to his race comments. I already stated that my comment was not intended to qualify Tiger's golf prowess so how does Jack's racism qualify his golf?

I don't consider 2nd places to be pseudo when they point to a consistency that is remarkable. For 11 straight years Jack finished no worse than 5th in the Open Championship. Think about that. 11 years in a row. In Major championships he placed top 3 46 times, top 5 56 times, top 10 95 times. From 73 to 76 he made the top ten for 13 straight majors! Top 15 for 33 majors in a row. 39 majors in a row without missing the cut...his prime years with Palmer, Player and Trevino in the field.

The book isn't closed on Tiger yet but it appears that he's finished....we'll just have to see. Sum total stats you may grant to Tiger but to say not even close is silly.

[iacas]

@NEhomer, now you’ve done it. @turtleback will copy/paste and list them for you.

Also, please recognize that Jack played against significantly weaker fields.

We have another topic about that here.

[NEhomer]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

@NEhomer, now you’ve done it. @turtleback will copy/paste and list them for you.

Also, please recognize that Jack played against significantly weaker fields.

We have another topic about that here.

Lol....yeah well, alas the plight of the message board newb!  The first thing will be to toss out everything I listed. 

 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, NEhomer said:

Lol....yeah well, alas the plight of the message board newb!  The first thing will be to toss out everything I listed. 

No need.

[turtleback]

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

@NEhomer, now you’ve done it. @turtleback will copy/paste and list them for you.

Also, please recognize that Jack played against significantly weaker fields.

We have another topic about that here.

Nah, I'm not going to bother.  Unless he gives me one real stat other than 18>14 in which Jack leads Tiger.  A bunch of random facts that don't involve winning are meaningless.  I don't think he wants to know, because I pretty recently posted a bunch of links, and he obviously hasn't followed any of them or pretty much anything in this thread.  Heck, there is plenty just 2 pages back.  And as we know, when it comes down to it, 18>14 is pretty much all they want to hear.

And @NEhomer, take a look at the British Open fields when Jack was finishing top 5 11 years in a row 1970-1980, it was still not all that common for the best golfers of the day to enter, since most of them were American, it was expensive to go there, and the tournament paid the winner very little.  Billy Casper, an all-time great and arguably the best player in the world from 1968-1970, played in 5 British Opens in his whole career.  

You could also look at the fields for his PGAs, a third of which were comprised of club pros who basically had no chance.  And compare it to the fields of the PGAs that Tiger won which each probably had one of the three toughest fields for its year.

edited - to fix the number of British Opens Billy played - I said 3 but it is 5.

Edited February 23, 2018 by turtleback

[MOODY]

Jack would have crushed Tiger like he did everyone else.  Back in Jacks days they had to earn it on the course, not like these pampered endorsement players that just look good.  :D

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MOODY said:

Jack would have crushed Tiger like he did everyone else.  Back in Jacks days they had to earn it on the course, not like these pampered endorsement players that just look good.  :D

Ha!

Tiger = GOAT.

[turtleback]

4 hours ago, MOODY said:

Jack would have crushed Tiger like he did everyone else.  Back in Jacks days they had to earn it on the course, not like these pampered endorsement players that just look good.  :D

 

Good story, tell it again.

[mvmac]

4 hours ago, MOODY said:

Jack would have crushed Tiger like he did everyone else.  Back in Jacks days they had to earn it on the course, not like these pampered endorsement players that just look good.  :D

 

And every hole was uphill and into the wind back in the day 

[NEhomer]

12 hours ago, turtleback said:

Nah, I'm not going to bother.  Unless he gives me one real stat other than 18>14 in which Jack leads Tiger.  A bunch of random facts that don't involve winning are meaningless.  I don't think he wants to know, because I pretty recently posted a bunch of links, and he obviously hasn't followed any of them or pretty much anything in this thread.  Heck, there is plenty just 2 pages back.  And as we know, when it comes down to it, 18>14 is pretty much all they want to hear.

And @NEhomer, take a look at the British Open fields when Jack was finishing top 5 11 years in a row 1970-1980, it was still not all that common for the best golfers of the day to enter, since most of them were American, it was expensive to go there, and the tournament paid the winner very little.  Billy Casper, an all-time great and arguably the best player in the world from 1968-1970, played in 5 British Opens in his whole career.  

You could also look at the fields for his PGAs, a third of which were comprised of club pros who basically had no chance.  And compare it to the fields of the PGAs that Tiger won which each probably had one of the three toughest fields for its year.

edited - to fix the number of British Opens Billy played - I said 3 but it is 5.

Ok, I surrender 

The things that both of them have done make my head spin. When Tiger crushed par while the entire rest of the field couldn't sniff it in his Pebble Beach Open win, wow.....just how in hell does someone dominate like that?

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, NEhomer said:

Ok, I surrender 

The things that both of them have done make my head spin. When Tiger crushed par while the entire rest of the field couldn't sniff it in his Pebble Beach Open win, wow.....just how in hell does someone dominate like that?

Jack was an incredible golfer and I admire both him and Tiger as players. But they did play a bit differently IMO. Jack knew what score would be needed to win as he has stated in his book and interviews. He would play to get to that score. Tiger on the other hand seemed to play as if he wanted to dominate the course on every hole. At the PB Open, he did that. It was stunning to watch.

[Vinsk]

14 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Jack was an incredible golfer and I admire both him and Tiger as players. But they did play a bit differently IMO. Jack knew what score would be needed to win as he has stated in his book and interviews. He would play to get to that score. Tiger on the other hand seemed to play as if he wanted to dominate the course on every hole. At the PB Open, he did that. It was stunning to watch.

Exactly. Jack was the best of his time. Never mind blowing or artistic to a level of a  phenom like Tiger. Jack was best of his time. Tiger is GOAT. Wonderful closure of this discussion. Lol.

[Dufferpauly]

Not even close...Jack Jack and Jack...86 Masters says it all

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Dufferpauly said:

Not even close...Jack Jack and Jack...86 Masters says it all

Nah. Says nothing really. Jack as usual played a nice solid round while the top of the leaderboard crumbled. The fact that he was in his 40’s was impressive but he basically won similar to how Willet won. 

[jbishop15]

10 hours ago, Dufferpauly said:

Not even close...Jack Jack and Jack...86 Masters says it all

Tiger won the US Open on a broken leg and a torn ACL. That is a magnitude more impressive than Jack winning the Masters in '86.

[skydog]

11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Nah. Says nothing really. Jack as usual played a nice solid round while the top of the leaderboard crumbled. The fact that he was in his 40’s was impressive but he basically won similar to how Willet won. 

For the love of all that is good in this world, let's not compare Jack's 86 charge to what that pasty punk lucked into in 2016.

Jack shot a final round 65 and went four under on the last four holes to win. The other leaders had a hole or two (Seve on 15) that ended up costing them but none of them folded. Kite, Norman, and Seve (2/3/4th place finishers) shot final rounds 68, 70, and 70....not exactly folding. Jack just made a legendary back nine charge. 

[Dufferpauly]

6 hours ago, jbishop15 said:

Tiger won the US Open on a broken leg and a torn ACL. That is a magnitude more impressive than Jack winning the Masters in '86.

Don’t forget the Tiger PEDas too...there is Jack...and everyone else

[jbishop15]

59 minutes ago, Dufferpauly said:

Don’t forget the Tiger PEDas too...there is Jack...and everyone else

When you can prove that he took PEDs, I'll accept that as an argument. Meanwhile, in an age where literally everyone who has ever taken a steroid has been exposed and ridiculed, Tiger never has been. Why do you think that is?

You think the most popular golfer on the face of the planet, who lost near billions in endorsement deals after an infidelity scandal, and who had his life torn apart under scrutiny, over and over again, somehow hid that he was taking PEDs?