OB Rules

[TN94z]

This is how I learned to play. I have never had any formal training for golf (never have taken a lesson) so I just listen to what people tell me on the course and after hearing it and seeing certain things done so many times figured it was the way to play.

I wasn't talking about you at all man....sorry if it seemed that way. There are many people that don't know the rules and that is cool. You have to learn some time. I just stated that because of some of the guys I have played with....

[jones]

I wasn't talking about you at all man....sorry if it seemed that way. There are many people that don't know the rules and that is cool. You have to learn some time. I just stated that because of some of the guys I have played with....

No problem, I knew you weren't talking about me. I was just pointing out my situation because I find it crazy that I have been playing the wrong way for a few years now...and thought I was always following the rules.

I guess this means that on my local course on a par 4, 330 yard hole with OB to both the left and right I will stop hitting driver and go with a 4 iron off the tee.

[jones]

You have to drop a ball from the where you hit it. So if you hit your second shot OB, you have to drop from where you hit that shot and play your 4th. Same with a lost ball.

Are you allowed to drop 2 clublengths from red stakes?

[Shindig]

Are you allowed to drop 2 clublengths from red stakes?

General rule on drops:

Are you paying for it? If so, 2 clubs. If not, 1 club. Since the red stakes is a penalty drop, then yes, two clubs.

[Zeph]

Yellow stakes = water hazard
Red stakes = lateral water hazard

Only difference is when you have to drop a new ball.

a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard , drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.

[Golfingdad]

Quick OB question that I came across today.  Yanked my drive left of the trees.  A line of white stakes started up near the green and there were 4 or 5 of them with the last one being 5 yards AHEAD of me.  The imaginary line through the 4 stakes ahead of me clearly showed that I would have been OB, however there did not appear to be any stakes behind me.

What's the ruling?  Does the OB area just die at that last stake, meaning I was lucky and in bounds, or does that line extend indefinitely meaning I should have re-teed?  (Irrelevant because it's not a score that is affecting my handicap, but want to learn for future reference)

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quick OB question that I came across today.  Yanked my drive left of the trees.  A line of white stakes started up near the green and there were 4 or 5 of them with the last one being 5 yards AHEAD of me.  The imaginary line through the 4 stakes ahead of me clearly showed that I would have been OB, however there did not appear to be any stakes behind me.

What's the ruling?  Does the OB area just die at that last stake, meaning I was lucky and in bounds, or does that line extend indefinitely meaning I should have re-teed?  (Irrelevant because it's not a score that is affecting my handicap, but want to learn for future reference)

In the situation you describe I do not think you are out of bounds.  Out of bounds starts at the first stake and end at the last stake.

At least that has always been my understanding.  I know one of the REAL rules mavens will correct me if I am wrong.  If I AM wrong I hope they will point to a rule or decision.

[luu5]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

What's the ruling?  Does the OB area just die at that last stake, meaning I was lucky and in bounds, or does that line extend indefinitely meaning I should have re-teed?  (Irrelevant because it's not a score that is affecting my handicap, but want to learn for future reference)

Whole world would be OB if we extended all OB lines indefinitely.

The last stake should have had black top to indicate end of OB to make it clear.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quick OB question that I came across today.  Yanked my drive left of the trees.  A line of white stakes started up near the green and there were 4 or 5 of them with the last one being 5 yards AHEAD of me.  The imaginary line through the 4 stakes ahead of me clearly showed that I would have been OB, however there did not appear to be any stakes behind me.

What's the ruling?  Does the OB area just die at that last stake, meaning I was lucky and in bounds, or does that line extend indefinitely meaning I should have re-teed?  (Irrelevant because it's not a score that is affecting my handicap, but want to learn for future reference)

I would say in this case it was just matter of poor course marking. I would suggest the 4 stake line was supposed to continue back past you.

The normal convention used to indicate the end of a OB margin is to play another stake adjacent to the last but perpendicular to the original OB line. The same would apply to a Lateral Water Hazard margin.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

I would say in this case it was just matter of poor course marking. I would suggest the 4 stake line was supposed to continue back past you.

The normal convention used to indicate the end of a OB margin is to play another stake adjacent to the last but perpendicular to the original OB line. The same would apply to a Lateral Water Hazard margin.

I think you are right.  The OB is to discourage people from playing too close to the houses along the hole, even though the line is well away form the houses and there is plenty of grass from which to play.  But the houses continue well back behind where I was which is why I am sure the intention is for where I was to be OB.  But if that last stake is NOT marked with a black top (Don't think it was, but didn't know about that so I didn't check) and I cannot see another, am I right to play it as it lies?

[David in FL]

I think you are right.  The OB is to discourage people from playing too close to the houses along the hole, even though the line is well away form the houses and there is plenty of grass from which to play.  But the houses continue well back behind where I was which is why I am sure the intention is for where I was to be OB.  But if that last stake is NOT marked with a black top (Don't think it was, but didn't know about that so I didn't check) and I cannot see another, am I right to play it as it lies?

Without evidence to the contrary, if I'm playing with you, I'm ruling it in bounds.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quick OB question that I came across today.  Yanked my drive left of the trees.  A line of white stakes started up near the green and there were 4 or 5 of them with the last one being 5 yards AHEAD of me.  The imaginary line through the 4 stakes ahead of me clearly showed that I would have been OB, however there did not appear to be any stakes behind me.

What's the ruling?  Does the OB area just die at that last stake, meaning I was lucky and in bounds, or does that line extend indefinitely meaning I should have re-teed?  (Irrelevant because it's not a score that is affecting my handicap, but want to learn for future reference)

I too have encountered poor course marking this year, but mostly with hazards...very frustrating.  Can you show us the hole on google maps or something?

[zeg]

A couple of the holes at one of the courses near here has a few marked kind of like you describe. If it's really unclear, then I'd be inclined to give myself the benefit of the doubt.

But be honest. If there's an obvious feature of the terrain that suggests the OB should continue and where that line is, then I'd think the committee had intended that OB line to continue. E.g., if there is no other reasonable place further off the fairway where OB should obviously start, then it probably is meant to continue. Or if there were heavy rough inside the stakes and wild-grown grass and brush behind it, I'd say the OB line was meant to follow that boundary. But otherwise, I'd treat the OB as starting perpendicularly to the last stake or whatever made sense given the situation.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by zeg

A couple of the holes at one of the courses near here has a few marked kind of like you describe. If it's really unclear, then I'd be inclined to give myself the benefit of the doubt.

But be honest. If there's an obvious feature of the terrain that suggests the OB should continue and where that line is, then I'd think the committee had intended that OB line to continue. E.g., if there is no other reasonable place further off the fairway where OB should obviously start, then it probably is meant to continue. Or if there were heavy rough inside the stakes and wild-grown grass and brush behind it, I'd say the OB line was meant to follow that boundary. But otherwise, I'd treat the OB as starting perpendicularly to the last stake or whatever made sense given the situation.

So when things are poorly marked are you suppose to play as you assume the committee intended or how they are actually marked?  I am talking more about ESA hazards rather than OOB and will give you two examples that I can recall off the top of my head:

In both situations, what the committee "intended" can be assumed by how the grass is mowed along the stakes that are present.

1.  I am in the long grass that is INSIDE the obvious hazard "line" but because of a "missing" stake and no visible line the ball is OUTSIDE the hazard when going from the stakes that are present.

2.  I am in short grass that is OUTSIDE the obvious hazard "line", but because of a "missing" stake and no visible line the ball is WITHING the hazard when going from the stakes that are present.

Earlier in the season when both hazards had a painted line, the first ball was  WITHIN the hazard and the second ball was OUTSIDE the hazard.  For the 1st one a ranger told us we were in an ESA and when we showed him the stakes said it was not within the hazard, he moved the stakes after we left (and apologized to me later).

I ended up playing both of these as hazards as one of the guys in the group on the 2nd one were split as to if I was in the hazard or not.  I felt this was unfair, but understood it based on where the stakes were actually present.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by MEfree

So when things are poorly marked are you suppose to play as you assume the committee intended or how they are actually marked?  I am talking more about ESA hazards rather than OOB and will give you two examples that I can recall off the top of my head:

In both situations, what the committee "intended" can be assumed by how the grass is mowed along the stakes that are present.

1.  I am in the long grass that is INSIDE the obvious hazard "line" but because of a "missing" stake and no visible line the ball is OUTSIDE the hazard when going from the stakes that are present.

2.  I am in short grass that is OUTSIDE the obvious hazard "line", but because of a "missing" stake and no visible line the ball is WITHING the hazard when going from the stakes that are present.

Earlier in the season when both hazards had a painted line, the first ball was  WITHIN the hazard and the second ball was OUTSIDE the hazard.  For the 1st one a ranger told us we were in an ESA and when we showed him the stakes said it was not within the hazard, he moved the stakes after we left (and apologized to me later).

I ended up playing both of these as hazards as one of the guys in the group on the 2nd one were split as to if I was in the hazard or not.  I felt this was unfair, but understood it based on where the stakes were actually present.

For some things, the definitions don't actually require markings (e.g., water hazards), so in that case, if the marking is improper or incomplete, you have to apply the definition yourself. This comes up a lot with drainage ditches down the center of fairways, at least at a few courses I've played. They don't always bother marking them, though they ought to.

For OB, it's a bit harder because it's not always obvious. I think in that case, it would be whatever is on the official map (if there is one), or what the intent was. E.g., if there's a region that's behind a curb and it has one white stake, it might be fair to conclude that the whole separated region is OB. (Obviously, it depends on the exact situation.) If you're playing something serious, then use the rule for playing a second ball and get a ruling from the clubhouse when you're done.

Me? I just use my best judgement. But the rules do give you a well-defined procedure for playing when something is unclear.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quick OB question that I came across today.  Yanked my drive left of the trees.  A line of white stakes started up near the green and there were 4 or 5 of them with the last one being 5 yards AHEAD of me.  The imaginary line through the 4 stakes ahead of me clearly showed that I would have been OB, however there did not appear to be any stakes behind me.

What's the ruling?  Does the OB area just die at that last stake, meaning I was lucky and in bounds, or does that line extend indefinitely meaning I should have re-teed?  (Irrelevant because it's not a score that is affecting my handicap, but want to learn for future reference)

I would say in this case it was just matter of poor course marking. I would suggest the 4 stake line was supposed to continue back past you.

The normal convention used to indicate the end of a OB margin is to play another stake adjacent to the last but perpendicular to the original OB line. The same would apply to a Lateral Water Hazard margin.

Rulesman has it right as usual.  The last stake in an out of bounds margin should be a double stake.  If the course is mismarked, then all you can do is use your best judgement until you can talk to someone in charge.   Out of bounds should not just be extended to infinity after the last single stake if the stake is still clearly on the course property.  Such a condition would not create a defined margin.

[Golfingdad]

OK, I thought of another OB question while playing yesterday. A couple of the holes on the course had OB stakes that were all down one side of the hole along the cart path.  The clear intention is that the OB line follows the cart path, however, the stakes are only every 50' or so, so in a couple of curvy parts, there is land "outside" the cart path that is inside the stakes.  I assume that you aren't required or expected to make an assumption as to their intention and still treat the OB as a "connect-the-dots" between stakes.  (Another course I play has this situation solved because there is a 4" wide white line painted on the outside edge of the cart path.)

This course yesterday also had a sign posted on the tee of one of those holes (didn't notice it on the other) that said "everything to the left of the cart path is OB."  Does that sign over-ride the stakes themselves?  Does it count as a local rule?  I checked the scorecard and it only mentions the stakes.

I mean, if they didn't have stakes at all and only the sign ... certainly we would have no choice but to consider EVERYTHING outside the cart path OB, put the presence of the stakes combined with the lack of an actual line on the path sort of muddles the issue a bit.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

OK, I thought of another OB question while playing yesterday. A couple of the holes on the course had OB stakes that were all down one side of the hole along the cart path.  The clear intention is that the OB line follows the cart path, however, the stakes are only every 50' or so, so in a couple of curvy parts, there is land "outside" the cart path that is inside the stakes.  I assume that you aren't required or expected to make an assumption as to their intention and still treat the OB as a "connect-the-dots" between stakes.  (Another course I play has this situation solved because there is a 4" wide white line painted on the outside edge of the cart path.)

This course yesterday also had a sign posted on the tee of one of those holes (didn't notice it on the other) that said "everything to the left of the cart path is OB."  Does that sign over-ride the stakes themselves?  Does it count as a local rule?  I checked the scorecard and it only mentions the stakes.

I mean, if they didn't have stakes at all and only the sign ... certainly we would have no choice but to consider EVERYTHING outside the cart path OB, put the presence of the stakes combined with the lack of an actual line on the path sort of muddles the issue a bit.

You are correct.  If there are only stakes and no lines to define out of bounds, then the stakes are what count.