The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

Here is a review of the stack and tilt from a fantastic web site. The author really explains well, from a biomechanics prospective, TGM. Read some of his articles your game will get better.

Here's the problem: the author does not explain it really well, because several of his facts are flawed, several of his images are flawed, and a good portion of his understanding of the swing pattern is flawed, and despite countless discussions with many people who know, teach, understand, and have been certified to teach S&T;, he persists in his beliefs, and is unwilling to accept that he is wrong.

Case in point: for years (and he still does) he believed the left tilt was a target-ward tilt even at the top of the backswing. He failed to understand, and since about a year ago chooses to ignore, that the left tilt at the top is oriented towards the golf ball.

Having dealt with the author countless times myself, I wouldn't trust the information on that site.

And that's the nicest way to put all of that. Surely there's good information there, but given the author's attitude, plucking the good from the incorrect is difficult at best.

[Apotheosis]

Hmm interesting, who would have thought there would be beef on the internet lol

Without reading the whole thread i get the feeling that at least of few of the members here are SaT'ers.  Anyone care to share quickly why they like/enjoy/play better with SaT?

Ill check through the thread too it seems like in 64 pages all my questions are probably answered :D

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

Without reading the whole thread i get the feeling that at least of few of the members here are SaT'ers.  Anyone care to share quickly why they like/enjoy/play better with SaT?

I was two years ago. It was the swing that introduced me to the idea that it was possible to take an almost purely scientific approach to the golf swing (the "art" of instruction is in conveying the proper things to students, and "feeling" it yourself, and in just being a generally good guy from which to take a lesson). At Golf Evolution we've "evolved" beyond the basic one swing S&T; teaches, as well as some of the components of the swing (more in how they actually occur, etc.). Five Simple Keys®.

But I'll let others answer, too, and recycle an answer I've given in the past: S&T; isn't about whole-hog adoption, it's about applying the piece or pieces you need most to make you better, and that's it. That's often not every single one of the ten words or hitting every position in the S&T; swing.

[Zeph]

I could probably write too much about S&T;, but I'll keep it short. I became a fan because it seemed logical and made sense. They had an explanation for why things happened, like the ball flight laws. It was not based on "try this, try that". With S&T;, they explained exactly why I wasn't hitting the ball well, and it all made sense. I've seen quite a few YouTube videos on how to fix a slice. "Swing right, rotate your hands, don't cup the left wrist". After a couple of "S&T;"-lessons with Evolvr through Golf Evolution, my slice was history, never to be seen again (except the odd push-slice). Not only did I fix the problem, but I know how I did it and why it worked. Everything was explained. If I ever fall back on old habits, I know how to fix it again. Despite my lack of devotion to practice, I've made big progress on my swing. If I hit a bad shot, I usually know exactly why. Either by how it felt, or how the ball flies. Knowing why also makes it a whole lot easier to fix, even mid-round. At this point I know more than I've been able to fix on my swing. That doesn't mean you have to know and understand everything, but you can if you would like to. If you find a decent instructor, he can help you without you having to understand it all. That's not an option for me though, I have to know. I could probably have improved with any decent instructor out there, but what I enjoy is that I actually learn this stuff myself and understand it. And all of it is based on evidence from Trackman data and by analyzing swings of the best players of the game, finding their commonalities. I have to give a lot of my thanks to Golf Evolution and especially Erik. They have taken S&T; and gone further, making it better. All of it still with a logical explanation which makes sense with the laws of nature.

[Apotheosis]

Sounds like exactly what I am looking for.  I will have to go in depth and check it out.  I am brand new to the game (1 season under my belt) so I don't have any swing tendencies ingrained in me yet.

Between this site and the golf evolution site will i have enough to be able to learn the correct the parts of SaT that I personally need?  I feel like a I have fairly good grasp on concepts relating to golf considering how long I have played.

Other then the obvious SaT book any other suggested readings?

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

Other then the obvious SaT book any other suggested readings?

This and all the SnT related threads here will keep you busy for quite awhile. There are 60+ pgs in this thread alone. Some SnT instructors have YouTube channels as well as Golf Evolution. Plus the FB page. All this is no small gulp.

[Danattherock]

The S&T; 2.0 dvds ($99 for 4 dvds) will ship out in late March based on the email I got today.

My understanding, which is brief, suggests the new dvds are all encompassing and buying the original dvds is not worth doing if buying the new 2.0 dvds.

I am implementing some S&T; components and figured the new dvds would be a good way to learn more about S&T.;

Pre-ordered the other night, sounds like there will be some delay from the expected release date.

-Dan

[michaeljames92]

Mike Bennett qualified for the Honda Classic today with a 65. Finished one shot back in third. He must've had a poor day with the flatstick ;--)

[Danattherock]

That explains why the dvds are being released late.

These guys are out playing golf

[michaeljames92]

EDIT: I should've said 'Pre-qualifier'. He still has to have a good round on monday
It's the first I've heard of him actually playing golf. Remember this is a guy who apparently doesn't practice in between clinics and lessons.  Not only can these guys teach, but they can also do it pretty well. ;-)

Originally Posted by Danattherock

That explains why the dvds are being released late.

These guys are out playing golf

[iacas]

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

Mike Bennett qualified for the Honda Classic today with a 65. Finished one shot back in third. He must've had a poor day with the flatstick ;--)

I believe he pre-qualified and still has to Monday qualify.

[michaeljames92]

Yeah, silly me. Forgot they still had the monday qualifier.

Originally Posted by iacas

I believe he pre-qualified and still has to Monday qualify.

[Missouri Swede]

I've recently (quickly) read through the SnT book, and am now starting to go through it more slowly. I'm thinking about getting the SnT DVDs.

As Danattherock suggested getting the new ones coming out, but I see the old ones are being sold at a steep discount.

What opinions do others have? Get the cheap older ones now (for the price of a box of balls) or wait for the newer (and hopefully better) ones?

Or get the 5 Keys DVD?

Thanks.

[nevets88]

I'd wait for the newer ones. Like I mentioned above, if you search around in the this site and YouTube, you'll find a ton of material.

Originally Posted by Missouri Swede

I've recently (quickly) read through the SnT book, and am now starting to go through it more slowly. I'm thinking about getting the SnT DVDs.

As Danattherock suggested getting the new ones coming out, but I see the old ones are being sold at a steep discount.

What opinions do others have? Get the cheap older ones now (for the price of a box of balls) or wait for the newer (and hopefully better) ones?

Or get the 5 Keys DVD?

Thanks.

[I-league]

OK weather permitting I am back on the range next week end when my local re opens. I will testing some of the main S&T; principles (forward stance, non.transfer of weight, straighter arm motion etc) for the first time. I am quite exited to see how it goes.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's the problem: the author does not explain it really well, because several of his facts are flawed, several of his images are flawed, and a good portion of his understanding of the swing pattern is flawed, and despite countless discussions with many people who know, teach, understand, and have been certified to teach S&T;, he persists in his beliefs, and is unwilling to accept that he is wrong.

Case in point: for years (and he still does) he believed the left tilt was a target-ward tilt even at the top of the backswing. He failed to understand, and since about a year ago chooses to ignore, that the left tilt at the top is oriented towards the golf ball.

Having dealt with the author countless times myself, I wouldn't trust the information on that site.

And that's the nicest way to put all of that.  Surely there's good information there, but given the author's attitude, plucking the good from the incorrect is difficult at best.

The other problem is he refers to Vijay Singh as VJ Singh.  Clearly the guy has no idea what he's talking about.

I've been working on Dave's rock throwing drill with a 20# kettlebell, and I can really feel what he's talking about.  I can't wait to get on the range and see how it feels with a club in my hand.

[JMann62]

I received the S&T; videos from Medicus a few weeks ago, but after reading a comment elsewhere online about how S&T; aggravated their back (specifically SI joint pain, which I am also dealing with), I never even unwrapped the DVDs. With 64 pages in this thread already, I guess there are quite a few of you that use S&T; - have any of you experienced any physical problems with S&T;? I'd really like to give it an honest try, but that one comment about back pain immediately scared me away.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by JMann62

I received the S&T; videos from Medicus a few weeks ago, but after reading a comment elsewhere online about how S&T; aggravated their back (specifically SI joint pain, which I am also dealing with), I never even unwrapped the DVDs. With 64 pages in this thread already, I guess there are quite a few of you that use S&T; - have any of you experienced any physical problems with S&T;? I'd really like to give it an honest try, but that one comment about back pain immediately scared me away.

Since beginning my journey into S&T;, I have less back problems.