famous pro who ruins swings

[deronsizemore]

Isn't he Ernie Els instructor? Michelle Wii?

Yes to Wie, but I think he is sort of on again, off again with Els.

Els is with Butch Harmon now if I'm not mistaken? Has been for a while now.

[neophyte]

PGA instructors can help a lot, but they are not a miracle workers.

I wonder how the legacy of Hogan, Nelson, Trevino, and Furyk would read if they went to Leadbetter?

Ray Romano was taking regular lessons from a Pga pro before he went to Haney.

Most of the 70's scoring golfers that I personally know did so in around a year and a half or dug it out of the dirt by themself through years of hard work. And none took more than one or two lessons in the beginning to get the basics.

Most of the teaching pro's hate these questions "How many students of yours were experienceds 120+scorer golfers when they started with you and now score regularily under 80, thanks to your instruction?" And could I have a list of them to check as references?

My point: If you are not a super gifted golf athlete, you will have to practice and play a lot for a long time. No teaching pro can make it quick and easy for a non athlete like me to become tour player. And If I want to be an 80 or 90 player it will take a lot of time away from family to be able to score in the 80 or 90's.

[sean_miller]

Anyone read The Golf Swing, his first book? I have always thought it may be the perfect instructional book for the masses. Speaks of the athletic swing, and doesn't concern itself with fades, draws, fixes, clubs selection, anything. Just pure athletic swing.

I haven't read it - but if I find a copy I'll give it a good look. The thing is, I personally don't know enough about his specific teaching to call him on anything. My critique was of the goofy swing trainers he was coming out with in the 90s and that fact he looks like a praying mantis when he swings a club himself. He can't help how he's built of course, so that last critique is a bit harsh on my part.

[IcemanYVR]

Anyone read The Golf Swing, his first book? I have always thought it may be the perfect instructional book for the masses. Speaks of the athletic swing, and doesn't concern itself with fades, draws, fixes, clubs selection, anything. Just pure athletic swing.

I've got the book, and that is essentially my swing. I would venture that if you can swing like he teaches in the book, you're going to do just fine. The book contains solid swing fundamentals, and has good drills to practice various parts of the swing.

I do believe he is responsible for misguiding a few top players, but that's out of working with him one on one, not from his book.

[Yukari]

Isn't he Ernie Els instructor? Michelle Wii?

I don't know whether it was intentional or not, but the spelling of Michelle's last name was funny as hell...

[newnoggin]

I remember a discussion a while back about one of the well known pros who was notorious for ruining swings... the saying went something like "he's been Leadbettered" only Im not sure if it was Leadbetter.. anyone know who I am talking about?

All the teachers have successes and failures. My best friend went to see Ballard. He was never the same. He finally gave up golf. My favorite story is when they asked Trevino why he didn't gave a coach. Hw replied that he couldn't find one that could beat him. Leadbetter's failures most likely outnumber his more famous students. You have to dig it out of the dirt.

[AmazingWhacker]

I don't understand how an instructor can "ruin" a swing.  Ultimately, it's the player whose in charge of their swing.  I can understand how discouraging it can be for amateurs but Pros have been playing great for years . .they know how to swing a club.  I just don't see how a bad teacher can be much more than an excuse for a Pro losing their game.

[saevel25]

I don't understand how an instructor can "ruin" a swing.  Ultimately, it's the player whose in charge of their swing.  I can understand how discouraging it can be for amateurs but Pros have been playing great for years . .they know how to swing a club.  I just don't see how a bad teacher can be much more than an excuse for a Pro losing their game.

Golfers are very ignorant when it comes to what actually happens with the golf swing. That is why we put a lot of trust in the instructor to get us swinging better, because they have the knowledge to do so. If you go to a bad insrtuctor you are basically having your trust violated because they either lack the knowledge or can not convey it correctly to help you improve which can ultimately hurt your hold swing.

[mvmac]

I don't understand how an instructor can "ruin" a swing.  Ultimately, it's the player whose in charge of their swing.  I can understand how discouraging it can be for amateurs but Pros have been playing great for years . .they know how to swing a club.  I just don't see how a bad teacher can be much more than an excuse for a Pro losing their game.

Pros sometimes know how to swing a club in spite of receiving incorrect information. Can also be why they're are so afraid of change, they "own" what they do and don't want to risk losing it.

I don't think it's any coincidence that many of the top players on tour right now didn't receive much technical instruction growing up, Bubba, Fowler, Justin Thomas, Rory, Spieth.

Where are all the players from the last 20 years that lived and went to school at the Leadbetter, Haney, Gilchrist academies?

[mchepp]

I don't think it's any coincidence that many of the top players on tour right now didn't receive much technical instruction growing up, Bubba, Fowler, Justin Thomas, Rory, Spieth.  Where are all the players from the last 20 years that lived and went to school at the Leadbetter, Haney, Gilchrist academies?

Excellent point Mike!

[Mr. Desmond]

Well, Spieth has received instruction since age 12, whether it was technical enough is up for discussion...

(gheez, hate it when I must do legal research and drafting on a Sunday... and then I must check TST and finish up another viewing of "John Wick" before bed... )

Spieth's instructor since age 12 knew he had something special

By Max Adler

AUGUSTA, Ga. -- Jordan Spieth has been coached by Cameron McCormick since age 12. McCormick is a sandy-haired Australian whose post is the Brook Hollow Golf Club in Dallas. His most famous student is President George Walker Bush, but there’s no question who’s his brightest.

The first lesson young Jordan had with McCormick took place not on the range, but in the pro’s small office. McCormick is a voracious reader of scholarly texts on subjects like motor control and skill acquisition, and he likes to begin every relationship with a conversation. He asked the boy what he wanted to do.

“I’ll never forget how he looked me straight in the eye and told me he wanted to win the Masters,” McCormick said. “He didn’t look especially strong, his build was average for his age. He’d had some recent really low rounds but his tournament scoring average wasn’t remarkable. But the dead seriousness with which he told me that was like nothing I’d ever heard from someone his age."

Related: Cameron McCormick instruction in Golf Digest

McCormick next asked Jordan to rate the elements of his game. The boy said his ball-striking was best. He loved how he hit the ball.

Rather than help the boy hit it better by fixing some obvious idiosyncrasies (namely a weak grip and a broken left elbow at the top of the backswing that persist to this day) McCormick focused on nurturing that confidence. No sense breaking down for the boy how hard this game could really be.

McCormick gets excited when he talks about “mirror neurons.” Brain science is of course complicated, but essentially, mirror neurons are the parts of the brain that fire as we watch someone perform a physical movement. Scientists have discovered that a significant percentage of these neurons fire in the same sequence when we perform the action ourselves. In our neural pathways, we’re always mirroring others. This has amazing significance. It helps explain why amputees feel relief from an itch in a phantom limb by watching another person scratch his leg. It helps explain why baseball players are more likely to get a hit if they’ve watched the batter before them get a hit. It suggests a level of human interconnectedness difficult to imagine, that we are almost like one mind separated by our skin. It also suggests we learn by watching in a way much deeper than ever thought.

So what does this have to do with a 21-year-old carrying the 36-hole lead into the 79th Masters? Well, he’s not dominating the Masters because he swings a club better or hits the ball farther than everybody else. Jordan’s special strength is his mind. And the training started when he was very young.

While some coaches instruct students to focus by blocking out distractions and playing “in their own bubble,” McCormick has always encouraged Jordan to look around.

“We’ve always spoken about the principle of association since he was young and playing in bigger stage events,” McCormick said. This means paying attention to the good shots of others to increase the likelihood you’ll hit a good shot. “We’ve also worked on building an ‘imagery reel’ of his past successes to draw back on to amplify his confidence.” Again, the idea is the act of remembering a good shot can actually trigger your motor skills to fire the same way.

[nevets88]

It seems like part and parcel of developing juniors is to sign up w/IMG like agencies who seem to have leverage and/or are convincing enough to have their clients switch from their previous teachers, some of whom they've been w/for a lifetime. I wonder how hard is it to opt out? I'm guessing there's a high pressure silver tongued sales pitch to go with your Leadbetters to increase the profit margin.

[Mr. Desmond]

It seems like part and parcel of developing juniors is to sign up w/IMG like agencies who seem to have leverage and/or are convincing enough to have their clients switch from their previous teachers, some of whom they've been w/for a lifetime. I wonder how hard is it to opt out? I'm guessing there's a high pressure silver tongued sales pitch to go with your Leadbetters to increase the profit margin.

Lydia Ko...

Where in the world are you?

suffering from led-poisoning and no recovery in sight...?

[Rick Martin]

Yes to Wie, but I think he is sort of on again, off again with Els.

somebody better get in touch with Rafael Cabrera-Bello  saw him with Leadbetter here in Tampa (Valspar Tourney)......

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2014-02/david-leadbetter-control-short-irons

as for pros who screw up players------has Foley been mentioned yet?

[tristanhilton85]

somebody better get in touch with Rafael Cabrera-Bello  saw him with Leadbetter here in Tampa (Valspar Tourney)......

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2014-02/david-leadbetter-control-short-irons

as for pros who screw up players------has Foley been mentioned yet?

Who's swing did Foley ruin?

I suspect you're talking about Tiger, but IIRC Tiger got back to World #1 under Foley, so that can't be it.

[Mr. Desmond]

Who's swing did Foley ruin?

I suspect you're talking about Tiger, but IIRC Tiger got back to World #1 under Foley, so that can't be it.

From what I've read, Foley overdoes the Trackman with players.

I also read stories and saw video where Foley was having Tiger force lag so much that there was only a nano-second where ball and club were aligned with the heavens.

Technology is great, but it's not everything ... see Jordan Spieth.

[saevel25]

From what I've read, Foley overdoes the Trackman with players.

I also read stories and saw video where Foley was having Tiger force lag so much that there was only a nano-second where ball and club were aligned with the heavens.

I wouldn't be quoting Leadbetter for much of anything.

I don't see forced lag with Justin Rose or Hunter Mahan.

[Mr. Desmond]

I wouldn't be quoting Leadbetter for much of anything.

I don't see forced lag with Justin Rose or Hunter Mahan.

Agree, but I only mentioned Tiger...

My guess is that Tiger was obsessed with Trackman numbers and distance ... don't know if Foley tried to talk him down from the cliff ... or tried to please ... or maybe Tiger did not understand all that Foleyspeak...