Hole in One on a Mulligan

[max power]

It's a wonderful achievement, but I'd rather not hole out after a mulligan, and I don't have a hole in one yet.  It's not the same either, it's your second try on that hole during that round.  I know statistically it's just as improbable as any hole in one, but it's a second chance from the same tee location, conditions, pin placement, etc.  Not the same.

Originally Posted by B-Con

Holing out from the teebox is just as impressive regardless of whether it was the first or second strike at the ball. Assuming a player plays a course even infrequently, they will amass a number of attempts on a hole over time. Whether they hole out on their 8th or 9th try from that tee is irrelevant, the feat is just as unlikely.

So while holing out on the second try doesn't qualify for a 1 on the scorecard, the feat is just as interesting. The feat is holing out from the tee box, it doesn't matter which attempt it was so long as it was in the normal course of play.

So, wonderful feat, but most unfortunate timing on it.

[B-Con]

It's a wonderful achievement, but I'd rather not hole out after a mulligan, and I don't have a hole in one yet.  It's not the same either, it's your second try on that hole during that round.  I know statistically it's just as improbable as any hole in one, but it's a second chance from the same tee location, conditions, pin placement, etc.  Not the same.

Um, that's basically what I said. Statistically they're the same, hence they are essentially the same feat. They have different terms and different scoring, though, but they both start and end the same way. What he did before it is irrelevant for the feat itself. The fact that it's a "second chance" doesn't really make a difference because odds are it's the 8th or so time he's played that hole. Would you diminish a hole-in-one by someone who was playing their second round for that day?

[max power]

Completely disagree.  You've already had one shot on the hole, in the particular conditions for the time and day.  You ever hit a 2nd shot just for practice after a crappy or sub-par shot?  It's almost always better/much better than the first attempt.  It's like if you played two balls all day, odds are the 2nd ball score will be better.  For a reason.  What does a 2nd round in the same day have to do with this?  The shots would be 3 to 4 1/2 hours apart.

Originally Posted by B-Con

Quote:

Originally Posted by max power

It's a wonderful achievement, but I'd rather not hole out after a mulligan, and I don't have a hole in one yet.  It's not the same either, it's your second try on that hole during that round.  I know statistically it's just as improbable as any hole in one, but it's a second chance from the same tee location, conditions, pin placement, etc.  Not the same.

Um, that's basically what I said. Statistically they're the same, hence they are essentially the same feat. They have different terms and different scoring, though, but they both start and end the same way. What he did before it is irrelevant for the feat itself.

[tristanhilton85]

Think of it as a great shot... that's what it was, but it wasn't a hole in one.

As to what shorty is saying... he's right.

Personally, I don't have a problem with mulligans or playing a second ball or whatever if you DO NOT record a score (and don't hold others up in the process)... the way I look at it is that you are practicing.  What really bugs me is when people to take a second ball instead and then all of a sudden they say they shot some great score when they honestly didn't.  If you are gonna take mulligans then don't count a score and call it what it is, practice.

[golf4fun12]

if he titled this as the best par save ever, that would of fit this situation a little better.

max power.....when you say play 2 balls the whole round....do you mean you hit two drives and then play both balls wherever they are? or do you mean hit one drive and then play 2 balls from that spot? cause if you played 2 balls off the tee box, the second score might be worse then the first or vice versa . but, if you play one drive off the tee box then play 2 balls from the spot of the drive, then your second ball score would fair a better chance at being better since you could gauge your first shot

[max power]

Quote:

Originally Posted by golf4fun12

if he titled this as the best par save ever, that would of fit this situation a little better.

max power.....when you say play 2 balls the whole round....do you mean you hit two drives and then play both balls wherever they are? or do you mean hit one drive and then play 2 balls from that spot? cause if you played 2 balls off the tee box, the second score might be worse then the first or vice versa . but, if you play one drive off the tee box then play 2 balls from the spot of the drive, then your second ball score would fair a better chance at being better since you could gauge your first shot

[BostonSully]

Originally Posted by max power

Quick Q on this subject.

At my local pitch and putt I'll usually play 2-3 balls a hole all the way from tee to hole individually. I'll record all 3 scores seperately and treat it like I played 3 different rounds (not for handicapping purposes just for my own mental score).

Is this legit?

[Sliceapotomus]

I may be in the minority...

However, I would be freaking ecstatic and I would be screaming regardless of a mulligan or not.

That is an impressive feat no matter if you used a mulligan or did it on your first shot.

Hats off to you kid, that is awesome... and thats a shot that many of us will never hit in our life time. Who cares if you wrote 1 or 3 on your scorecard, that was an awesome shot that you may never hit again. Job well done.

You werent playing for money, in a tournament or working on getting an official handicap, so mulligans make the game alot more fun for you and your family/friends. Way to go bud.

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by BostonSully

At my local pitch and putt I'll usually play 2-3 balls a hole all the way from tee to hole individually. I'll record all 3 scores seperately and treat it like I played 3 different rounds (not for handicapping purposes just for my own mental score).

Is this legit?

Actually it is less than legit - you're in violation of Rule 7-2 for practicing during a round.   If you're posting your first ball for handicap, add 2 strokes a hole for the penalty - that 75 you think you just shot was actually a 111.

Back to the OP's original quandary, I actually think you've got a far better story to tell people than if it was an actual ace.    Imagine you're at a party and the topic turns to golf.    You can say "Oh, I had a hole-in-one once", and people would probably say "Oh, that's nice" and then change the topic, especially if they aren't golf fanatics.     But tell them that you dunked one in the weeds and then hit a second from the tee into the hole to save par, and they'll probably enjoy it a lot more!    You'll get more mileage out of the self-effacing humor in your lucky shot.

[MadDog2004]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadDog2004

You've been chewing this guy out since the beginning. All he did was ask a simple question. Should he feel wrong. He never said he was going around bragging about his hole in one. There is no reason to be so hostile towards him yet that's all you've ever been to him.

You have gone to the trouble of creating a new identity just to say that? Why not use your usual username.

And....dead right I'm hostile towards people who think that they can modify the rules and terms of the games to suit themsleves. But you'll notice that I was responding to responses.

The OP got the message very early on.

Do you really think that you need to "ask" if you should feel guilty for thinking you did something you really didn't do?

The most gratifying thing for me is that I expected a chorus of responses like :

"I'd take it man."

"Hey bro, congrtas, you scored an ace"

"It's an ace, man, don't let the haters get to you."

"Me and my buddies take mulligans all of the time man. It's an ace. Congrats"

and it didn't happen. Hallelujah!.

Alright well put, my bad. I also agree that it is

n't an ace it just seemed that you didn't need to be so harsh.

Anywho this is my first and only account. I just came here like the atmosphere and decided to stay.

[Yanks Fan]

Good lord Shorty, get off the guys nuts lol. You can be a straight shooter with him and tell him it's not a hole in one (which even he admitted) but relax dude. Who cares what some dude over the internet whom you'll never meet put down on his card as his score? Does it really bother you that much? The guy isn't on tour playing for money and neither are you. Great par OP. Frustrating but a good story nonetheless.

[darkhunter139]

All the OP even asked was if he should feel good about his shot since it was not technically a hole in one.  So he even acknowledged that it was not a hole in one in his first post, give the guy a break.  Not everyone has to play like they are on the PGA tour every round.

And to answer the question yeah you should feel good about it! I know I would.

[Ernest Jones]

Yeah it can get a little vicious in here!

[B-Con]

Completely disagree.  You've already had one shot on the hole, in the particular conditions for the time and day.  You ever hit a 2nd shot just for practice after a crappy or sub-par shot?  It's almost always better/much better than the first attempt.  It's like if you played two balls all day, odds are the 2nd ball score will be better.  For a reason.  What does a 2nd round in the same day have to do with this?  The shots would be 3 to 4 1/2 hours apart.

The second ball might be better. It also might not. If it's better, it's probably not by much and probably due to green reading and other issues that, like you yourself pointed out in another post, are more about the fine-tuning of course management rather than actually swinging. You're overestimating the benefit of hitting a second shot -- at least for most people. If it were truly a huge advantage, driving range sessions would improve with every swing. After the first few swings, that's most certainly not the case. If he's playing the hole in the middle of his round, he's probably already swung that club a handful of times before and is already warmed up. He also took practice swings with that club. He's not going to be able to gain a significant advantage for a shot simply by swinging at a ball beforehand. Maybe if you're a highly skilled player who can gain a slight advantage by seeing the ball perform off the ground, in the air, and onto the ground it might help, but for anyone else it doesn't really matter. The second round analogy is relevant because on the first round you got to see the conditions of the hole. And that's really all you might gain by playing a second shot. Holing out on your second time through the course vs your second shot for the hole is basically the same statistical feat.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by B-Con

Quote:

Originally Posted by max power

Completely disagree.  You've already had one shot on the hole, in the particular conditions for the time and day.  You ever hit a 2nd shot just for practice after a crappy or sub-par shot?  It's almost always better/much better than the first attempt.  It's like if you played two balls all day, odds are the 2nd ball score will be better.  For a reason.  What does a 2nd round in the same day have to do with this?  The shots would be 3 to 4 1/2 hours apart.

The second ball might be better. It also might not. If it's better, it's probably not by much and probably due to green reading and other issues that, like you yourself pointed out in another post, are more about the fine-tuning of course management rather than actually swinging.

You're overestimating the benefit of hitting a second shot -- at least for most people. If it were truly a huge advantage, driving range sessions would improve with every swing. After the first few swings, that's most certainly not the case. If he's playing the hole in the middle of his round, he's probably already swung that club a handful of times before and is already warmed up. He also took practice swings with that club. He's not going to be able to gain a significant advantage for a shot simply by swinging at a ball beforehand. Maybe if you're a highly skilled player who can gain a slight advantage by seeing the ball perform off the ground, in the air, and onto the ground it might help, but for anyone else it doesn't really matter.

The second round analogy is relevant because on the first round you got to see the conditions of the hole. And that's really all you might gain by playing a second shot. Holing out on your second time through the course vs your second shot for the hole is basically the same statistical feat.

Argue semantics much?

What we do know is; 1 .) the guy didn't get a hole in one, 2 .) the odds of holing out once with 2 shots are twice as high as holing out once with one shot, 3 .) the OP wasn't so much asking for permission to tell everyone he had a hole-in-one as wondering why other people were so excited, and 4 ) in case it hasn't been said enough times, he did not get a hole in one and people should stop referring to it as such.

[Ernest Jones]

He did, however, hole out from the tee and there is no denying the awesomeness of that feat! But I agree that everyone should stop debating the HIO aspect as it is clearly just a fantastically awesome shot to save par in a spectacular manner. But lets not dump on the guy, its not like he's taking our money!

[zeg]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What we do know is; 1.) the guy didn't get a hole in one,

Correct, although "hole in one" is an informal term, and some people DO use it to mean "holed out from the tee."  If you're talking to a non-golfer, "Hole in one on a mulligan" is probably a clearer description than "Saved par after taking stroke-and-distance for an unplayable lie."  A golfer will be able to decipher what he means (and, based on this thread, will very likely harrass him).

2.) the odds of holing out once with 2 shots are twice as high as holing out once with one shot,

In the spirit of arguing minutiae, the relevant calculation is that he slightly worse odds, since he'd never have taken the second if he'd holed the first.  The odds of an "ace" with two shots are slightly worse than twice. :-P

3.) the OP wasn't so much asking for permission to tell everyone he had a hole-in-one as wondering why other people were so excited,

Yep, agree.  The OP never made any bogus claims, and the thread title completely explains the truth of the matter.

and 4) in case it hasn't been said enough times, he did not get a hole in one and people should stop referring to it as such.

See my response to 1) above.  :-)

[golf4fun12]

max power......I would see you improving a score on the par 3's with the second shot. but the rest of the holes, it would depend on your tee shot, which could be bad with either the first or second shot. I don't know how much difference there would be with the par 4 or 5 holes. I would think it would be around the same score for both balls.