The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

It takes courage to run into a burning building and save lives like fireman do, it takes courage to join the military and fight for your country.  I don't consider what Dan did as courageous, it was narcissistic.  He wanted the world the watch him become a pro golfer and support him financially under the guise of proving the 10,000 hour theory to be true.

Now that people have lost interest Dan is thrashing to regain their attention and their money.

Strange, the whole idea of writing a story or telling someone about your adventure is to provide entertainment and/or value. The very fact that you are writing about Dan on a golf forum tells me that he has contributed to entertaining you as you surely would not be spending time on this forum and replying if you did not enjoy it. So you are contributing to the succes of Dan's blog, yet you are at the same time complaining anout how stupid the whole idea is. I dont think Dan is living a life of luxury of his blog proceeds.

And if it is so simple to only play golf for 5 years and not work and have the public support you, why arent more people doing it? Because their values dont allow it?

Dan's work is very valuable for anyone involved in learning and development and those interested in this fascinating theory. I would welcome more experiments like this.

+1.   People can disagree with how Dan went about achieving his goal, turning down Iacas help, etc..   But doing something like this is what I and many other golfers dream about doing if they have courage, conviction, time, and resource.   Regardless of what Dan's initial goal was and how unlikely he will meet that does not diminish the (entertainment) value of his experiment.    I watched a documentary video of another golfer who did something similar and he was just full of crap!   I couldn't even finish the video.

[k14]

Oops sorry phone died in the middle of me writing that. Here is what i wanted to say:

Dan is testing a theory on whether one can become an expert or master in a field through 10k hours of deliberate practice.

To me someone with a 2 or 3 handicap is very close to an expert and I would say someone with a scratch handicap has mastered the game of golf. I would consider a golf pro with a scratch handicap enough of an expert to go to him for instruction.

Sure he did mention qualifying for the tour in his first few posts, but he has also said that the goal is to see whether he can become a pro.

Halfway though his 10k hours, Dan was at a 4 handicap. That to me is not far from expert level when talking about golf. We all know that learning and skill aquisition is not linear and ive no doubt that Dan can reach a scratch handicap by 10k hours. That to me would prove that the 10k hours transformed him from knowing nothing to being an expert.

Too many people focus on the PGA tour bit if his mission. That really is not the point of the exercise.

I can become a great, expert lawyer, or an expert illustrator or graphic designer, but still would not be one of the top 1000 lawyers im the world. Id still be an expert and master of the law though.

Your whole argument revolves around the fact that Dan got down to a handicap of 4/3/2 (or whatever he said he did). Myself (along with a fair few others) don't believe Dan ever genuinely got to that handicap. He got there by selectively handing in the cards that would get him to that index. When he can go out and play to his "handicap" in a tournament (not shoot 90+) then I think a lot more people will be able to take him seriously. Until then, he is just a hacker imo.

The most annoying thing (to me) about it is that he somehow thinks he is being hard done by because no sponsors have taken up his "offer" to pay him to promote their product/company. His blog is sporadic at best, I enjoy reading his posts but lately he has at best been posting once every 2 weeks. If he wants to get people really interested he needs to be posting 3-4 times a week.

[tdiii]

Your whole argument revolves around the fact that Dan got down to a handicap of 4/3/2 (or whatever he said he did). Myself (along with a fair few others) don't believe Dan ever genuinely got to that handicap. He got there by selectively handing in the cards that would get him to that index. When he can go out and play to his "handicap" in a tournament (not shoot 90+) then I think a lot more people will be able to take him seriously. Until then, he is just a hacker imo.

The most annoying thing (to me) about it is that he somehow thinks he is being hard done by because no sponsors have taken up his "offer" to pay him to promote their product/company. His blog is sporadic at best, I enjoy reading his posts but lately he has at best been posting once every 2 weeks. If he wants to get people really interested he needs to be posting 3-4 times a week.

The 10,000 hour countdown portion of the blog, which is supposed to recount daily activities, would take less than 5 minutes a day to update.

[newtogolf]

Strange, the whole idea of writing a story or telling someone about your adventure is to provide entertainment and/or value. The very fact that you are writing about Dan on a golf forum tells me that he has contributed to entertaining you as you surely would not be spending time on this forum and replying if you did not enjoy it. So you are contributing to the succes of Dan's blog, yet you are at the same time complaining anout how stupid the whole idea is. I dont think Dan is living a life of luxury of his blog proceeds.

And if it is so simple to only play golf for 5 years and not work and have the public support you, why arent more people doing it? Because their values dont allow it?

Dan's work is very valuable for anyone involved in learning and development and those interested in this fascinating theory. I would welcome more experiments like this.

+1.   People can disagree with how Dan went about achieving his goal, turning down Iacas help, etc..   But doing something like this is what I and many other golfers dream about doing if they have courage, conviction, time, and resource.   Regardless of what Dan's initial goal was and how unlikely he will meet that does not diminish the (entertainment) value of his experiment.    I watched a documentary video of another golfer who did something similar and he was just full of crap!   I couldn't even finish the video.

Dan's goal was to become a PGA Tour Player, not a 2/3/4 handicap if you want to believe that his handicap is legitimately that low.  We have guys on this site that work full time, raise a family and still managed to achieve a better handicap than Dan has with no outside interruptions.  Would it be fun to just forget about all my real world responsibilities and just play golf, sure, but doing so would be irresponsible, not courageous.

As for entertainment factor, I equate Dan to Kim Kardashian and her sisters, I read the content here and discuss him in this forum mostly out of disbelief that he's gained this level of celebrity without having an ounce of talent.

[RFKFREAK]

Dan's goal was to become a PGA Tour Player, not a 2/3/4 handicap if you want to believe that his handicap is legitimately that low.  We have guys on this site that work full time, raise a family and still managed to achieve a better handicap than Dan has with no outside interruptions.  Would it be fun to just forget about all my real world responsibilities and just play golf, sure, but doing so would be irresponsible, not courageous.

As for entertainment factor, I equate Dan to Kim Kardashian and her sisters, I read the content here and discuss him in this forum mostly out of disbelief that he's gained this level of celebrity without having an ounce of talent.

You and I could not be more in agreement as far as Dan goes.

[rolopolo]

You and I could not be more in agreement as far as Dan goes.

The whole point of the exercise is to prove/disprove that talent is overrated. Dan clearly is not one of those people who can just pick up a sport and play to a great level in a short time. That is the very reason why his project is so interesting.

[rkim291968]

Dan's goal was to become a PGA Tour Player, not a 2/3/4 handicap if you want to believe that his handicap is legitimately that low.  We have guys on this site that work full time, raise a family and still managed to achieve a better handicap than Dan has with no outside interruptions.  Would it be fun to just forget about all my real world responsibilities and just play golf, sure, but doing so would be irresponsible, not courageous.

As for entertainment factor, I equate Dan to Kim Kardashian and her sisters, I read the content here and discuss him in this forum mostly out of disbelief that he's gained this level of celebrity without having an ounce of talent.

I don't follow Kim K so I would not know how Dan compares to Kim.  I (and most others) didn't believe anyone (or Dan) can become PGA Tour Player that easy so I never gave credence to Dan's stated goal.   I thought it was an overstated goal and looked at the experiment as just that, an experiment.   We knew the outcome.  A few may even rooted for Dan to come through with his goal.   If anyone took him seriously and reacts accordingly, I don't get that.  Of course, YMMV.

[Pretzel]

That would be the point if he actually tried. The fact that he hasn't actually put forth much effort into the various avenues of success, whether they be instruction, nutrition, or exercise, shows that his main goal really is to just golf as his day job for however long it takes.

Currently the whole point of the exercise, or at least what it appears to be from an outside observer, is to try and get enough people to give money so that he doesn't have to get a real job for another four or five years and can instead just play golf.

I have no sympathy for his lack of money, just because (to an outside observer, again) he isn't doing anything to solve that! The easiest way for him to reduce his expenses is to finally realize he needs to seek employment at a golf course. Most courses don't require a full 40-hour week of all their employees, and if Dan could get a part-time job at a course he would both earn some money and score free golf and range balls as an employee benefit. Instead Dan chooses to piddle away the money he has on a private club membership instead of putting that towards any instruction or physical training. He's just expecting handouts or some sudden windfall to change his fortune, as opposed to actively seeking out ways to improve his situation and the "plan".

[k14]

The 10,000 hour countdown portion of the blog, which is supposed to recount daily activities, would take less than 5 minutes a day to update.

Exactly! The way he goes on it sounds like the mere fact that he is attempting to do this means he is entitled for sponsors to queue up to give him their cash. If he can't even organise himself enough to update minor things such as that why would a sponsor want to pay him to do it? I certainly know I wouldn't (if I had the $$ to chuck at stuff like that).

One of the best golf books I've ever read was called Paper Tiger (By Tom Coyne). Brilliant book and from what I could tell in the book he was very dedicated (and had the ground level talent to possibly succeed). I think if he tried it he could have had a lot more success than Dan at gaining sponsorship and who knows what may have happened if he had a bit more $$ behind him.

[iacas]

Come on now, that's a bit harsh. I'd be willing to concede that Dan is in the top 95%. Now the top 5% on the other hand.....

Yeah, sorry, I goofed. You know what I meant. He's not in the top 5%. :) Thanks for catching that.

To me someone with a 2 or 3 handicap is very close to an expert and I would say someone with a scratch handicap has mastered the game of golf. I would consider a golf pro with a scratch handicap enough of an expert to go to him for instruction.

As others have said, I don't know that he's actually been a 2/3/4 handicap. And a 4 handicap is a LONG ways from a scratch golfer.

I agree that a scratch golfer would be "expert status." I disagree that a 4 handicap is expert status. And Dan's goal, as others pointed out, was to play and make a cut on the PGA Tour.

Sure he did mention qualifying for the tour in his first few posts, but he has also said that the goal is to see whether he can become a pro.

To be pedantic… anyone can be a "pro." You just have to declare yourself one.

Halfway though his 10k hours, Dan was at a 4 handicap. That to me is not far from expert level when talking about golf. We all know that learning and skill aquisition is not linear and ive no doubt that Dan can reach a scratch handicap by 10k hours. That to me would prove that the 10k hours transformed him from knowing nothing to being an expert.

I disagree…

Too many people focus on the PGA tour bit if his mission. That really is not the point of the exercise.

As I understand it, it was his goal. He chose it. Thus he set the expectations and defined what success/failure would be.

[RandallT]

so much criticism towards Dan and his lack of "dedication" and "hard work". what the man has accomplished is simply unbelievable and i think his experiment is already a big success.

If this is a success, I shudder to think how failure might look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFKFREAK

You and I could not be more in agreement as far as Dan goes.

The whole point of the exercise is to prove/disprove that talent is overrated. Dan clearly is not one of those people who can just pick up a sport and play to a great level in a short time. That is the very reason why his project is so interesting.

Here is Dan's page:

WHO IS DAN?

Dan is an average man by most standards. When The Dan Plan began, he was a 30-year-old commercial photographer with no previous experience as a competitive athlete, nor was he in particularly good physical condition. Dan is slightly under average height and weight, had never played a full 18 holes of golf, and had only been to a driving range a handful of times. He was not even sure if he was a left-or right-handed golfer. Dan currently resides in Portland, Oregon.

WHY?

Through his journey Dan hopes to inspire others to start exploring the possibilities life affords them. Though his isn’t an easy endeavor and is quite possibly impossible, if it inspires even one person to quit their day job and find happiness in their own plan, then the Dan Plan is a success.

THE DETAILS

On April 5th, 2010, Dan quit his day job as a commercial photographer and began The Dan Plan. Having never played 18 holes of golf in his life, Dan started the 10,000 hour journey with just a putter.  After five months of putting, he received his second club, a pitching wedge. Just before the first anniversary of The Dan Plan dan took his first full-swing lesson.  After 18 months he swung a driver for the first time.  On December 28, 2011 he played his first full round with a full set of clubs.  Since then it has been off to the races.

Logging in 30-plus hours a week he will hit the 10,000 hour milestone by December 2016. During this time, Dan plans to develop his skills through deliberate practice, eventually winning amateur events and obtaining his PGA Tour card through a successful appearance in the PGA Tour’s Qualifying School, or “Q-School”.

THE THEORY

Talent has little to do with success. According to research conducted by Dr. K. Anders Ericsson, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University, “Elite performers engage in ‘deliberate practice’–an effortful activity designed to improve target performance.” Dr. Ericsson’s studies, made popular through Malcolm Gladwell’s book Outliers and Geoff Colvin’s Talent is Overrated, have found that in order to excel in a field, roughly 10,000 hours of “stretching yourself beyond what you can currently do” is required. “I think you’re the right astronaut for this mission,” Dr. Ericsson said about The Dan Plan.

I agree that the whole point is that "talent is overrated," as you say. He specifically addresses that in the theory section above. He pretty much states that he will excel in the field and that he has little talent at the outset.

So to be a success, we agree Dan must become an expert. From there, we part ways.

Must he reach his goal of "winning amateur events and obtaining his PGA card" for him to be an expert and declare it a success? I'd say yes. It's fine that you think otherwise, of course. But I doubt you'll change my mind.

The other elements of success are in the manner he went about his endeavor:

- consistent, insightful blogging?

- did he document his deliberate practice (a key element upon which the project is based) for others to learn from?

- did he approach the learning and application of the skill in a manner that makes sense (hiring the right coaches, etc)?

- did he adequately fund the effort?

- did he track his goals effectively? His stats? Did he clearly state when he was on track or missing targets he had set with his goals guru?

Those items can all be soundly answered "no."  (and have been pretty resoundingly documented in this long thread)  Should he have done all of that list well for his project to be a success? I'd say yes- particularly the "deliberate practice" aspects of his blog. Maybe you think he's done those things well, or that it is not critical?

But Dan gives an escape clause above to make it all a success... you see the line he threw in there?.... "if it inspires even one person to quit their day job and find happiness in their own plan, then the Dan Plan is a success."

THERE IT IS: SUCCESS!

(for those reading carefully in the thread, this is one of my pet peeves when the media interviews anyone for any endeavor... they do it not for themselves but to inspire. Puke. I admire the sentiment, but it has become cliche)

Putting aside success/failure, there are bigger picture reasons why the whole project didn't make sense as well:

- was Dan's single data point of an experiment going to really prove anything? If he failed, did it debunk the theory? If he made the PGA, did it prove it? No and no.

- did Ericsson really mean to include athletic endeavors in his 10,000 hour theory? I believe I've read that athletics was not what he meant to address.

- had the debate moved further than Dan realized right as he was starting the project or very soon thereafter (e.g., http://sportsscientists.com/2012/03/10000-hours-vs-training-debate/). Many people were already diving deeper into the theory, to the point where it seemed like Dan's description of the 10,000 hour theory was stale and people had moved far deeper into the interrelated ideas of talent and hard work. Dan's project seemed to be in slow-motion while there was tons of debate going on around him, with lots of case studies already documented. It almost felt like an Emily Litella "never mind" moment.

The project is just entertainment. It's not rigorously academic, nor is it of much value to academics I would think. Pass the popcorn, let's see how it all ends.

[tdiii]

What RandallT said.

[newtogolf]

I don't follow Kim K so I would not know how Dan compares to Kim.  I (and most others) didn't believe anyone (or Dan) can become PGA Tour Player that easy so I never gave credence to Dan's stated goal.   I thought it was an overstated goal and looked at the experiment as just that, an experiment.   We knew the outcome.  A few may even rooted for Dan to come through with his goal.   If anyone took him seriously and reacts accordingly, I don't get that.  Of course, YMMV.

If his stated goal was not to be taken serious then that completely discounts the efforts and purpose of the experiment imo.

[BerkeleyRehab]

I would think after that Southwest article, he would be updating his website regularly, especially since he has more time with his injury. ***Every step of Dan’s journey from novice to professional golfer will be documented.*** ...or not. Where is his tournament summer schedule? If he wants money, it would be interesting to see all of the costs associated with this project so far as well as his future budget.

[mchepp]

I would think after that Southwest article, he would be updating his website regularly, especially since he has more time with his injury.

***Every step of Dan’s journey from novice to professional golfer will be documented.***

...or not.

Where is his tournament summer schedule?

If he wants money, it would be interesting to see all of the costs associated with this project so far as well as his future budget.

Yeah, he has kinda gone silent. The injury must be worse that he reported or he isn't having much progress. I guess a combo of both.

[Lihu]

I would think after that Southwest article, he would be updating his website regularly, especially since he has more time with his injury.

***Every step of Dan’s journey from novice to professional golfer will be documented.***

...or not.

Where is his tournament summer schedule?

If he wants money, it would be interesting to see all of the costs associated with this project so far as well as his future budget.

Too bad he got injured just in time for golf season.

I just met a golfer from Portland, and told him about Dan and he had no idea there was a "Dan Plan".

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerkeleyRehab

I would think after that Southwest article, he would be updating his website regularly, especially since he has more time with his injury.

***Every step of Dan’s journey from novice to professional golfer will be documented.***

...or not.

Where is his tournament summer schedule?

If he wants money, it would be interesting to see all of the costs associated with this project so far as well as his future budget.

Yeah, he has kinda gone silent. The injury must be worse that he reported or he isn't having much progress. I guess a combo of both.

Can you still contact him on a personal basis?

[mchepp]

I just met a golfer from Portland, and told him about Dan and he had no idea there was a "Dan Plan".

Unless you play at a few clubs in Oregon you wouldn't know who he was up here. A few people from Columbia Edgewater know who he is because he was a member there for the first year or so of the program and now Riverside where he is currently a member. A few members from Riverside know who he is. Otherwise, unless you are very serious and heard about him through other press, happened to read the Southwest article (I fly a lot and I rarely see people read the magazine), or are an esteemed member of this forum you likely have never heard of him.

Can you still contact him on a personal basis?

I can send him an email, but he is spotty at replying. I could send it but it could be anywhere from 15 minutes to 15 days before he replies.

[k14]

I can send him an email, but he is spotty at replying. I could send it but it could be anywhere from 15 minutes to 15 days before he replies.

Sounds a bit like his blog updating schedule. No blog or twitter activity for about 2 weeks. I think this might be the beginning of the end.