The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

This is a bit off topic.

I had the opportunity to receive from a tennis ball machine thingy that simulated serves at 125mph+ - this was a bit after university and I played tennis a fair bit. No amount of training, instruction or hocus pocus was going to allow me to return a ball at that speed on a consistent basis. And those were straight up flat serves. No kick, no slice. Blink, and it's right past you.

I knew someone who was a pretty good college DII player I think. He got the opportunity to hit with Jim Courier (multiple major wins). For awhile, he could keep up with him and he thought, hey, I'm not too shabby. Then Courier unleashed one of his trademark rocket forehands and he never even saw the ball.

If you've seen top 100 men's tennis up close, like linesman close, these guys are ****ing incredible. They can do anything with the ball and are so freaking coordinated, it's superhuman. It doesn't look like much on tv from a camera 50 feet away, but man, these guys are specimens.

It's impressive even from a an HDTV. Looks pretty much like a blur unless you have 240 frames per second.

Until you see someone drop shot a blazing passing shot and make it just barely fall over the net and spin backwards so much it almost bounces back over the net, unless you've seen a 30 ball rally, backhand slice to backhand slice, where the ball clears the net by a centimeter every time, until you see someone return a 135mph serve the server has no chance to even get to the ball even if he was Nightcrawler, from 10 feet away, you ain't seen nothin'.

When you see any pro athlete perform up close, it is breathtaking. Ever hear the swish of a baseball from the arm of a player with a rocket arm?

[Lihu]

Until you see someone drop shot a blazing passing shot and make it just barely fall over the net and spin backwards so much it almost bounces back over the net, unless you've seen a 30 ball rally, backhand slice to backhand slice, where the ball clears the net by a centimeter every time, until you see someone return a 135mph serve the server has no chance to even get to the ball even if he was Nightcrawler, from 10 feet away, you ain't seen nothin'.

When you see any pro athlete perform up close, it is breathtaking. Ever hear the swish of a baseball from the arm of a player with a rocket arm?

Yup, Nolan Ryan (when I was a little kid of course ) at a Ranger/Orioles game from less than 50 feet away. He was really fast.

[Pretzel]

The only reason it came up is because Dan stated his swing speed with a 7i is in excess of 90mph with a SM of 1.38. This makes him as fast but 4% more efficient than a PGA pro. I thought this was also absurd.

Ok, this I'm going to call absolute bull on (a bit late to the party, I know). With his swing (and his most recent numbers putting him at a driving distance of 270) he is not coming anywhere near a PGA pro in either category.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer/1836#post_1067343"]   Until you see someone drop shot a blazing passing shot and make it just barely fall over the net and spin backwards so much it almost bounces back over the net, unless you've seen a 30 ball rally, backhand slice to backhand slice, where the ball clears the net by a centimeter every time, until you see someone return a 135mph serve the server has no chance to even get to the ball even if he was Nightcrawler, from 10 feet away, you ain't seen nothin'. ;-) When you see any pro athlete perform up close, it is breathtaking. Ever hear the swish of a baseball from the arm of a player with a rocket arm? [/QUOTE] Yup, Nolan Ryan (when I was a little kid of course :whistle: ) at a Ranger/Orioles game from less than 50 feet away. He was really fast.

That's amazing. Wish I could have been there. Ok, that's it for the this off topic rat hole. I'm done. :-)

[Lihu]

Ok, this I'm going to call absolute bull on (a bit late to the party, I know). With his swing (and his most recent numbers putting him at a driving distance of 270) he is not coming anywhere near a PGA pro in either category.

Wow, this is the first time I've seen you post this word. Seems appropriate. Yeah, I'm wondering if his plane is going to crash and burn soon? Or maybe he'll get a TV show?

That's amazing. Wish I could have been there.

Ok, that's it for the this off topic rat hole. I'm done.

No, that would mean you're old. Enjoy your youth!

[newtogolf]

Seems Dan is able to manipulate his handicap when it suits him.  It goes up for a bit then after attending some seminar on the mental game it drops.  While it's certainly possible that this is a true reflection of his game it would seem that something is off given his inability to post these low scores during tournaments.

At this point I'd like to see him only posting scores for handicap if it's validated by someone else.

[nevets88]

Back to the subject. The other thing that irks me is his use of D-plane as the title of his post. Does he really need to be throwing around a potentially complex term like that? It makes him sound like launch monitor expert. And does anyone use the word "gamer" for their primary set?

[iacas]

And does anyone use the word "gamer" for their primary set?

Just douchebags. :D

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer/1836#post_1067399"] And does anyone use the word "gamer" for their primary set?[/QUOTE] Just douchebags. :D

Ha ha. Just say, primary set, no? Simple enough?

[Harp stein]

Back to the subject. The other thing that irks me is his use of D-plane as the title of his post. Does he really need to be throwing around a potentially complex term like that? It makes him sound like launch monitor expert.

And does anyone use the word "gamer" for their primary set?

Wow, poor guy can't win with this crowd. Everyone was complaining awhile back about him not sharing enough details of his training. When he writes a technical post with details about his training, people blow a gasket because he's being too detailed? WTF...

[Pretzel]

Wow, poor guy can't win with this crowd. Everyone was complaining awhile back about him not sharing enough details of his training. When he writes a technical post with details about his training, people blow a gasket because he's being too detailed? WTF...

No, they're upset because he doesn't appear to know what he's talking about. It looks like he's just talking about things without explaining them, and he's also likely falsifying information. I would be willing to bet some good money that he hasn't swung a 7-iron faster than 90 mph even once in his life, much less with a shorter than standard shaft in it while obtaining a 4% better smash factor than tour players do.

If he talked about his swing plane and said something like, "The person I talked to said that my swing plane was "x", but it needs to be "y" because "z" " and gave a little bit of explanation to it it could be beneficial to people. Just saying things like, " During the swing my arms are very low creating a horizontal swing plane (HSP) that doesn’t match up with my iron profile." doesn't help the layperson (the people he's marketing his plan to) understand what the problem is. If he explained more than he gave pep talks about how everything is improving I would be more interested in reading his blog consistently.

The Dan Plan could be great, but it needs a little bit of tweaking (more meat, less fancy verbiage and motivational speaking) and I would very much like to see him implement these changes. Perhaps he could do small segments with his instructors when he makes a change where the instructor, in a video, highlights what is being changed and explains why that would need to be changed. This could even help Dan get more instruction, as some instructors might be willing to give lessons at a slightly reduced rate in exchange for greater publicity that a video demonstrating their knowledge could provide.

I have nothing against Dan, I just wish he would make some changes that would make his Dan Plan less of a publicity stunt and more of an actual effort to improve and show others how they might do the same. I think getting a Flightscope is at least a step forward, but I hope he doesn't let the data drown out what his instructor is telling him.

Only time will tell if my similar post that is "awaiting moderation" on his blog makes it onto his site.

[natureboy]

If he said his swing speed was 93 with the 7i, it would be a little more believable than his smash factor being 4-5% more efficient than a PGA pro. I still wouldn't buy it.

Was he talking about smash factor with driver or irons? Pretty hard to get above 1.48-1.49 with driver. Given how tour pros tend to hit irons with a lot of compression (delofted with a slight downward AoA / narrow spin-loft), is a high smash factor on irons good or bad? My thought is that a lot of compression transfers more club energy into spin than ball speed so his higher smash factor on irons would then be a negative for PGA quality striking unless his spin rates were comparable.

As far as the initial plan, it probably would have been ideal for him to use the 65/25/10 ratio.

Maybe the old saw about starting on the greens and working back to the tee is closer to a right way to build a potential champion from a young age. Full swing mechanics will change a lot as a kid grows and develops strength. But knowledge gained putting and with short game is probably more cumulative over those years. I have noticed that many golfers on the forum who started from an early age give short shrift (it's easy!) to the short game feel & green reading skills they likely picked up automatically / intuitively as they learned the game over a number of years. I saw a statistician's study about age-related performance for pros and the long game was (on average) on a downward path by the mid 30's, but putting was still rising (though more slowly than earlier). It struck me from that study that even for pros, putting experience matters - more so than the agreed simpler stroke mechanics to be a really good / great putter, which can be an important contributor to scoring & winning edge on tour.

I started late in life and while I have definitely improved (don't 4-putt anymore ) I'm still a 'terrible' putter in relative terms. I think at least part of the issue at least (I can consistently put a decent roll straight at my target on a carpet) is that I simply lack accumulated time (I know, I know - & Aimpoint knowledge) on putting greens. It's a nice excuse anyway.

[Shorty]

And does anyone use the word "gamer" for their primary set?

People who call their putters "flatsticks" do.

[Shorty]

"I digress, though, and will post a thorough review once I have had the new machine for a month or two."

They gave him a FlightScope????

Imagine the review. It would be the equivalent of:

"I am really impressed with the feedback I am getting from my new forged wedges. They are really accurate."

He will just spew forth gibberish - but when he's addressing "believers" at his future seminars he'll be able to say "It wasn't until I saw the numbers from Flightscope that I was able translate what I had learnt in onto the course"

It will be just meaningless drivel and he'll skirt around any technical questions and just say he saw "amazing improvements".

Bottom line: Can he break 80 on a given day when he's not playing by himself? No.

Seems that companies are lining up to support this idiotic experiment.

Remember that his stated plan is PGATour. That's what he says, not us.

[mchepp]

"I digress, though, and will post a thorough review once I have had the new machine for a month or two."

They gave him a FlightScope????

I am not totally sure. CECC where he met with the guy has one on site. He might just go the range at Riverside where he is a member and use their machine. He did this when he was a member at CECC.

[iacas]

My thought is that a lot of compression transfers more club energy into spin than ball speed so his higher smash factor on irons would then be a negative for PGA quality striking unless his spin rates were comparable.

It's simply ball speed/clubhead speed.

The less delivered loft (and the more centered the hit), the more smash factor you can get. Thin the crap out of a 9-iron and you can get 1.53 sometimes.

PGA Tour players have higher smash factors than most AND higher spin rates than most because… they swing the club faster than most.

As far as the initial plan, it probably would have been ideal for him to use the 65/25/10 ratio.

It's 65/20/15 . :)

Maybe the old saw about starting on the greens and working back to the tee is closer to a right way to build a potential champion from a young age. Full swing mechanics will change a lot as a kid grows and develops strength. But knowledge gained putting and with short game is probably more cumulative over those years. I have noticed that many golfers on the forum who started from an early age give short shrift (it's easy!) to the short game feel & green reading skills they likely picked up automatically / intuitively as they learned the game over a number of years. I saw a statistician's study about age-related performance for pros and the long game was (on average) on a downward path by the mid 30's, but putting was still rising (though more slowly than earlier). It struck me from that study that even for pros, putting experience matters - more so than the agreed simpler stroke mechanics to be a really good / great putter, which can be an important contributor to scoring & winning edge on tour.

I don't give that a lot of weight. Most people learn putting by experience. It only really keeps growing.

Most people in their 30s don't improve their ball striking because they have families and jobs and are spending less time playing golf.

I support the idea of teaching juniors to smash the ball first. What good is it to have a great short game if you're trying to chip in for seven?

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Back to the subject. The other thing that irks me is his use of D-plane as the title of his post. Does he really need to be throwing around a potentially complex term like that? It makes him sound like launch monitor expert.

And does anyone use the word "gamer" for their primary set?

Wow, poor guy can't win with this crowd. Everyone was complaining awhile back about him not sharing enough details of his training. When he writes a technical post with details about his training, people blow a gasket because he's being too detailed? WTF...

@Pretzel expressed my feelings exactly and more eloquently than I could have. The Dan Plan is not being too detailed in his post. Using weighted terms like D-plane and HSP does not constitute detail. His post wasn't technical as it was vague and just reiterating the Flightscope rep. And that post wasn't about training - it was about club fitting. He specifically said he wasn't going to change his swing based on the radar's data.

@Pretzel - I'll be looking for your post on his blog should it get published.

Edit: Hey @Pretzel , your post is up. No responses though. I thought it was tactfully put and hope he responds.

[Lihu]

@Pretzel expressed my feelings exactly and more eloquently than I could have. The Dan Plan is not being too detailed in his post. Using weighted terms like D-plane and HSP does not constitute detail. His post wasn't technical as it was vague and just reiterating the Flightscope rep. And that post wasn't about training - it was about club fitting. He specifically said he wasn't going to change his swing based on the radar's data.

@Pretzel - I'll be looking for your post on his blog should it get published.

Edit: Hey @Pretzel, your post is up. No responses though. I thought it was tactfully put and hope he responds.

Agree, nice post @Pretzel .

Erik mentioned that if you thin the heck out of the 7i that the SM will go up. I wonder if we see his spins number would that tell the entire story? Or maybe he just put them up thinking most people won't question it?