The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Nosevi]

This is the kind of stuff that participation trophies originated from.  It might be a better world if we were all born with the same natural talent and it was only a matter of harnessing that talent that differentiated us from the pro's but that's not the real world we live in. 

This feel good, you can do it if you work hard and practice perfectly is what leads people to make poor life choices and then ruins their lives when they are confronted with reality.  Chances are Shaquille O'Neal will never be the jockey of a winning Kentucky Derby winner and Willie Shoemaker would never be an NBA superstar no matter how hard they tried. 

Granted those are extreme examples but the point is the average person cannot perform at a professionals level by practice alone, no matter how high in quality the practice is.  If nothing else, Dan has proven this, given his poor to average athleticism/genetics has limited his progress due to injury only halfway through his journey. 

I actually think those examples are perfectly valid and sensible. You are borne with a certain potential, you may not know what your potential is in a certain field but it's there. You can train and practice to reach that potential but you will never get beyond it. You can't, it's your potential, your talent ceiling.

I actually don't think it would be a better world if we all had the same talent, if every sprinter crossed the line together, all golf tournaments just came down to pure luck and anyone could be a brain surgeon. I think the world would be a pretty dull place.

[Lihu]

This is the kind of stuff that participation trophies originated from.  It might be a better world if we were all born with the same natural talent and it was only a matter of harnessing that talent that differentiated us from the pro's but that's not the real world we live in. 

This feel good, you can do it if you work hard and practice perfectly is what leads people to make poor life choices and then ruins their lives when they are confronted with reality.  Chances are Shaquille O'Neal will never be the jockey of a winning Kentucky Derby winner and Willie Shoemaker would never be an NBA superstar no matter how hard they tried. 

Granted those are extreme examples but the point is the average person cannot perform at a professionals level by practice alone, no matter how high in quality the practice is.  If nothing else, Dan has proven this, given his poor to average athleticism/genetics has limited his progress due to injury only halfway through his journey. 

It's not a worldwide phenomenon, it's only in the early 2000s that we started doing this in the United States.

In China, for instance, there is no such thing as "You can do anything if you work hard at it". The actual philosophy is "If you have the talent, you better work your ass off because there will be hundreds of thousands of others with more natural talent competing for the same prize as you."

[newtogolf]

It's not a worldwide phenomenon, it's only in the early 2000s that we started doing this in the United States.

In China, for instance, there is no such thing as "You can do anything if you work hard at it". The actual philosophy is "If you have the talent, you better work your ass off because there will be hundreds of thousands of others with more natural talent competing for the same prize as you."

I prefer that mentality over the participation trophy crowd.  We should strive to be the best we can be but understand that our best may not be as good as others due to factors outside of our control. 

[Lihu]

I prefer that mentality over the participation trophy crowd.  We should strive to be the best we can be but understand that our best may not be as good as others due to factors outside of our control. 

Sure, that's reality, and the wider the field of participants the higher is the possibility of failure. The thing that we should all learn from this is to be a better loser. It means working your hardest to compete, and expecting to lose while being pleasantly surprised you got as far as you did.

[mchepp]

I prefer that mentality over the participation trophy crowd.  We should strive to be the best we can be but understand that our best may not be as good as others due to factors outside of our control. 

Yes, agree. Also that there may come a time when you should find something else to put your effort and time into. Not saying he needs to quit golf, but use his time to better utilize his skills on something else. He seems to have a talent for photography and creativity. Much better than many people I know, he'd be better served improving that skill.

[JP golf]

Chances are Shaquille O'Neal will never be the jockey of a winning Kentucky Derby winner

[nevets88]

http://www.kisakallio.fi/valmennus/scientific_conference.html

[DrvFrShow]

So is Dan going to talk about that you shouldn't take up putting for 7 months?

[natureboy]

Interesting article. Not sure I agree with it all either, particularly the bit you've pointed out. Saying it's all down to purposeful practice, that 'talent' accounts for nothing is way wide of the mark IMO. The most obvious example has to be driving distance.

Let's say that your physicality only allows you to drive the ball 240 yards. No matter how much effort you put in you don't possess the natural strength to get the ball past this point. You won't compete at PGA tour level no matter what your skills are in other areas of the game. At the point at which not only is every par 5 on tour out of reach in 2 shots but so are many of the par 4s you will not be able to compete at this level on those courses. A certain distance off the tee is a 'requirement' to play at that level and if you don't have the talent, you're not borne with the physical attributes to be able to do it, then you will never be able to play at that level.

The driving distance thing might be overcome if you are a freakish outlier in consistency, accuracy, and short game ... moreso than even the guys at the bottom of the driving distance stats who manage to get on tour. I'm thinking of a Paul Runyan type of player. But I agree you would be starting with one arm tied behind your back and any mistakes would be very costly.

 

As a comparison, what do folks think of the new viral sensation, Paige Spirinac? She seems to be aiding her quest to find her golf potential with some savvy personal marketing that doesn't quite relate to her golf skills. Is that wrong? What if she had done this picking up the game later in life, without having competed at the college level first? Would you view her media efforts differently?

Edited October 10, 2015 by natureboy

[Shorty]

 Get over yourself Shorty. I know Dan personally, and have for many years, before he started TheDanPlan. It was never about making money.

What is it about then? It is clearly about publicity. The "theory" he is trying to prove is widely derided and disregarded.

It isn't about golf, because he ignores anything and anyone who suggests worthwhile things to try, yet he has massive links to all of the dubious "press" he has garnered.

He doesn't post realistic information about his progress, and has fallen off the planet over the last couple of months.

The only breakthroughs he has made in three years relate to warm fuzzies about playing in company and trying to be positive despite no progress beyond what a fit person who started at the same time he did would have made by playing three times a week.

If you (a +4 handicapper) knew him before he started why did you not get him to set a realistic target rather than something that is clearly unattainable for anyone with his limited athleticism and coordination?

He got people offside with his very clearly stated goal to play on the PGATour.

And - as a +4 handicapper, why did you not do something about the pathetic advice and instruction he was getting form the beginning?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Shorty

[Nosevi]

The driving distance thing might be overcome if you are a freakish outlier in consistency, accuracy, and short game ... moreso than even the guys at the bottom of the driving distance stats who manage to get on tour. I'm thinking of a Paul Runyan type of player. But I agree you would be starting with one arm tied behind your back and any mistakes would be very costly.

 

As a comparison, what do folks think of the new viral sensation, Paige Spirinac? She seems to be aiding her quest to find her golf potential with some savvy personal marketing that doesn't quite relate to her golf skills. Is that wrong? What if she had done this picking up the game later in life, without having competed at the college level first? Would you view her media efforts differently?

"Freakish" is the right term. Paul Runyan was a while ago and the tour setups have changed considerably since then. Were he around today, driving the ball as he did and playing on the setups they have today Paul Runyan would not be able to compete, no one currently playing the game could. What you are talking is for someone to be as accurate with their wedges from 50 or 60 yards out as exeryone else is with their putter from 25 feet. I hate using the word impossible as someone always pitches up that proves it wrong but let's just say it would be so improbable that it's not worth contemplating what the possibility is. On a 7,200 plus yard course you've got to get the ball out there to compete.

Regarding miss Spirinac she's selling something guys want to buy (golfers and non-golfers) and she's actually doing it quite successfully. She's a natural athlete who played the game from a relatively early age right up through college. You could argue that she's doing nothing that some of the girls on the LPGA do ie use sex appeal to gain media exposure, whether that will help her as she needs the sponsorship I'm pretty sure she's already got or at least got lined up or just be a distraction remains to be seen. It probably depends if the media attention is a tool she's using to get to where she wants to go golfing wise or if the media is in fact the end goal and the golf is the the means to get the media attention.

What @Shorty seems to be saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that with Dan it's the latter. I'm not sure if I agree but Dan has repeatedly stated that it's not about the golf it's about discovering his potential in a new field. Not sure I could spend maybe 7 years playing golf if it's not about the golf so I think that although that may have been the case early on it probably isn't any more.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Nosevi

[Shorty]

 

What @Shorty seems to be saying (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is that with Dan it's the latter. I'm not sure if I agree but Dan has repeatedly stated that it's not about the golf it's about discovering his potential in a new field. Not sure I could spend maybe 7 years playing golf if it's not about the golf so I think that although that may have been the case early on it probably isn't any more.

From Golfaid.com:

The Dan Plan started on April 5th, 2010, when Dan quit his day job as a commercial photographer and started dedicating over 30 hours a week with the hopes of reaching 10,000 hours practiced by November of 2015. During this time, Dan plans to develop his skills through deliberate practice, eventually winning amateur events and obtaining his PGA Tour card through a successful appearance in the PGA Tour’s Qualifying School.

Be under no illusions about what this guy's ambition was.

 

[Lihu]

@Shorty is right on target regarding Dan's intentions. Everything Dan is doing seems to point towards being "showy". My personal feeling is it would be great if he didn't give up so easily, and at least add to his blog that he got as far as he could that his talent allows. The fact that he doesn't do so makes me feel like he's not in it for the project's sake?

@pullfade might have known him for some years and possibly encouraged him to try this, but it seems like Dan should have gone long game first and should have been told to do that first. Even without Brodie's research it was pretty obvious to me and many other golfers that you need to get good with driver first. It's the first club you use on most par 4 and 5. The longer and straighter you are off the tee, the easier the rest of the hole. It makes no sense that a bunch of talented golfers would allow him to start off putting for 7 months. Putting just doesn't take 7 months to learn. Chipping doesn't take that long to learn either if you have decent full swing mechanics. In fact, if your full swing mechanics changes you will most likely change your pitching and chipping stroke accordingly. No matter what, starting off putting and chipping/pitching for 2 years is stupid. Anyone who knows him and is reasonably skilled should know to tell him to work on his long game first.

FYI, I started about the same time as him, and as of a year ago my on course driving was longer and as of 4 weeks ago is straighter than Dan's based upon his Trackman combine results. Took me 3 years just to get a 1.75 out of 5 swing to do it, and it might have taken Dan only 1-2 years if he worked on it properly?

[Nosevi]

From Golfaid.com:

The Dan Plan started on April 5th, 2010, when Dan quit his day job as a commercial photographer and started dedicating over 30 hours a week with the hopes of reaching 10,000 hours practiced by November of 2015. During this time, Dan plans to develop his skills through deliberate practice, eventually winning amateur events and obtaining his PGA Tour card through a successful appearance in the PGA Tour’s Qualifying School.

Be under no illusions about what this guy's ambition was.

 

So are you saying it was (or is?) all about achieving the end goal of making it to the PGA Tour or was just about self publicity and the golf was very much secondary?

[Shorty]

So are you saying it was (or is?) all about achieving the end goal of making it to the PGA Tour or was just about self publicity and the golf was very much secondary?

It started off with him thinking that the former would gain him publicity naturally and by default.

When it became clear that he was never even going to be good enough to reach the final 16 in any club championship in the country, the project morphed into what it is now, a shameless series of media opportunities where it's almost as if his actual progress is a taboo subject.

He is banking on non golfers believing that pros play off 0, he is a 3 and 3 is very close to 0, meaning he almost reached his goal and that people like me are nitpickers.

At no stage in any interview has he conceded that he is light years from his goal, and is not even a competitive club golfer.

[Nosevi]

It started off with him thinking that the former would gain him publicity naturally and by default.

When it became clear that he was never even going to be good enough to reach the final 16 in any club championship in the country, the project morphed into what it is now, a shameless series of media opportunities where it's almost as if his actual progress is a taboo subject.

He is banking on non golfers believing that pros play off 0, he is a 3 and 3 is very close to 0, meaning he almost reached his goal and that people like me are nitpickers.

At no stage in any interview has he conceded that he is light years from his goal, and is not even a competitive club golfer.

Fair enough. I'm not convinced it's as calculated as that, I just think he underestimated the enormity of the task he had taken on and so what it would take to achieve it and is now making the most of where he is but I won't get into an argument about it

I do have a question for all but you especially, Shorty. Pretty simple question really. Is it possible? I think most would say that Dan's approach was wide of the mark in a few areas but if it hadn't been is it possible that he could have succeeded in his quest had he taken a different route and if not why not?

Edited October 11, 2015 by Nosevi

[Shorty]

 

I do have a question for all but you especially, Shorty. Pretty simple question really. Is it possible? I think most would say that Dan's approach was wide of the mark in a few areas but if it hadn't been is it possible that he could have succeeded in his quest had he taken a different route and if not why not?

It may be possible for a truly gifted human specimen, but I would say no.

With Dan, you only have to look at a photo of him. He is ungainly, has no serious move through the ball, and just does not have the physiology to make it possible. In the same way that he woiuld never be an awesome baseball pitcher or javelin thrower or high jumper.

Dan could never ever be more than a reasonably low marker, but he would always be a short hitter who would struggle on courses when he has to play from the proper mens tees.

Being from the UK, you know that handicaps there are gained soleley from competition rounds. These guys do it themselves and in solo rounds from whatever tees they like (slope accounting for something, naturally) but many members here don't even realise that for a lot of players, of the proper tees, many par 3s are unreachable as are many par 4s. They play from tees which make them feel as if they can hit any green in regulation. Put them off the back, and suddenly they're hitting hybrids into most par 4s, will be short on half the par 3s with a driver and will struggle to reach par 5s in 3.  You will notice that many guys here seem to play courses where several par 4s are driveable and they are going for every par 5 in two. That is not real golf. I'll bet your course is not like that. They never hit a wide range of shots and hit driver and short iron into every par 4. Put them off the real tees and suddenly their "70s" shooting becomes 90 on a good day. That's all well and good, but don't be comparing your GIRs and other stats with the pros.

The thing about golf is that you can pretty much spot a really good player before he even hits a ball, and you can absolutely make a (negative) judgement about a person's capacity in a short period of time. Seconds. Now, that's not to say that an ordinary looking guy can't become a good player, but becoming a pro who makes money from the game is very different.

I palyed with two pros in a pro-am the other day. One is a trainee and the other is a club pro.

They were both seriously good players - both hit it a mile and had everything - but these are fellows who can make maybe a couple of thousand dollars in a few months if they play well. They are light years from making money as players and would have Dan by between 10 and 15 shots any day of the week.

And when I say they hit it a mile, I mean HUGE distance. There are players ion this site who have never actually seen touring pros hit it and this is why these threads and the endless "Can I turn pro?' threads are so silly. It's like anything. When you see the real thing, there's no mistaking it. People who have not seen these guys in the flesh have no idea. TV gives zero impression of the power they have.

My answer is: Go and watch a good pro on the practice tee for five minutes. Can you imagine yourself EVER hitting a 4 iron the way they do, or a driver? Same distance, same control, same consistency. If you can, go for it. 

Bottom line: six birdies a round is the target of most playing pros and to minimise errors.

 

Edited October 11, 2015 by Shorty

[pullfade]

I and many others along the way did tell him that slowly moving his way through the bag might not be the best approach. At the time, Dan knew nothing about the game and decided to stick to the program that his instructor, Christopher Smith laid out for him.

From Dan's perspective, I'd imagine if you knew nothing about the game and were seeing one of the best instructors in Oregon that has many accolades including the Speedgolf world record holder you might tend to listen to him over randoms and even friends giving you unsolicited advice. 

You all attack Dan for starting out his plan the way he did, but some of that, I feel needs to be directed at Christopher Smith. It would be interesting to see what he would say about it and whether he could admit the possibility of being wrong. Probably not. The guy is a real tool. 

 

Edited October 11, 2015 by pullfade