Can we all finally agree that Tiger is done?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by majorchamp

As good as Rory is, and will be...I still believe we haven't seen the best of Tiger yet (with regards to the last 5 years, not 2000) and once a couple of those things click in his game, I think his best still beats Rory's best.

We'll have to take your word for it, but on any given day who's to say which player has truly brought his best? There's always the built in excuse for the fanboys of any top player when they lose or choke - yeah but if their game was clicking. Well it wasn't,  so who cares?!?

PS. I don't think he's done winning majors, but how can someone refute Rory's best, when it laps the field.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

PS. I don't think he's done winning majors, but how can someone refute Rory's best, when it laps the field.

When Rory plays like he did this week and especially yesterday, he's easily in a class above all others except perhaps Tiger when he's totally on his game.

The round Rory played yesterday was fantastic. Other than a few errant drives, he was nearly perfect. Every part of his game was superb. It was great to watch and very much like Tiger in his prime.

[Mr. Desmond]

People are getting caught up in RORSmania.

He seems to be a fair weather player, and his game was on this week. But his game goes up and down and lacks week to week consistency. That indicates he is human, not Tiger-like. Still, RORS is already a dominant player. But he is young, his life is only beginning, and life is not only golf. We'll see what life's ups and downs has for him. Look at Tiger ... only a few years ago, people were predicting 25 majors for him...

[RonTheSavage]

Originally Posted by Paradox

I think people should look at Rory realistically before claiming he's unbeatable.

T40 at the Masters

Cut at the Players

Cut at Memorial

Cut at U.S. Open

T60 at Open Championship

Hell at last years PGA championship Rory was T64 at +11.

Point is...The field in professional golf is much stronger than it was in 2000 or even 2008.  A LOT of guys are able to win on any weekend and there won't ever be a guy who just dominates the game.  Not Rory, Not Tiger, not anyone else...it'll be a much closer race for everyone.

Tiger isn't done, its just harder and so it doesn't appear "easy" anymore.

Exactly! Everyone has such short memories, Rory before this week hasnt played well at all. Now he wins and LOOK OUT WORLD! Relax people. Tiger isnt done at all, he keeps putting himself into contention at majors and IMHO only has a piece or two to put together before he starts to win them again. It's a process.

[colin007]

Rorys putting was unbelievable..

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by iacas

You really like to try to hammer the "18 > 14" people, eh? It's a more valid comparison than you're willing to admit because Tiger's been playing golf for a long time. It's closer to "a career" than whatever Rory's at right now. When Rory's got 16 years we can compare it to Tiger's or Jack's careers. Right now all we can say is that he's ahead of Tiger's pace, and can make our own judgments on who is better at any given moment (right now Rory, duh).

That said it's been a full two years. Augusta 2013 will be huge for him, as that'll be > 2.5 years. It's never taken this long, and I don't think his short game was really to blame.

Erik,

You tipped over to "no" in Woods getting to 19. Do you think it's a combination of age, injuries, psychosomatic, etc ...? Are his instructors holding him back in any way? The announcers said he still has trouble with the left to left shot off the tee but hasn't he always had that problem?

[muggs]

Rory is only 23 and has two Majors under his belt. That's special.

That's what people get caught up in. There is so much potential there.

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Couple thoughts -

Re the 'Not fearing Tiger' thing - in the majors this year he really hasn't put himself in a position to be feared. But in his last win, when he got to the lead, Brendan de Jonge folded like a cheap suit. Yeah I know, it's Brendan de Jonge. Point being, it's easy to say other players don't fear Tiger and it's true to an extent, but what has happened in the majors is Tiger has shot himself out of contention on the weekends in order to be feared. Nobody fears a guy that flies greens with a wedge or misses makeable putts, whether his name is Tiger Woods or not.

Not to mention that players are capable of folding without Tiger being around, Furyk at Bridgestone, Scott at the Open, any other number of players that choke just because winning a tournament is sucha  big deal.

I guess what I'm saying is did de Jonge fold because he was intimidated by Tiger or by the prospect of winning and securing everything that goes with it, or a bit of both.

[onesome]

I think Tiger is stil on the rise,everything is starting to fall into place and by next year this time he could easily have 1 or 2 majors won, you don't dominate golf the way he did and ride off in the sunset by a few setbacks.

[Archie Bunker]

Rory played an incredible round - congratulations to him. However, after watching the last couple of hours of the PGA, I felt that it was by far one of the most boring tournaments of all times.  I would have much rather spent my time watching a close, nail-biting match with a sudden-death playoff. If I could have somehow known it was going to be a blowout, I probably would have skipped it. Nothing like The Masters, or the Opens this year. The announcers were desperate to create some sort of competition. Would anybody want to watch a replay of this (besides Rory)?

[geebee]

It's brave man who bets against Mr Woods. He doesn't look confident and that may be his coach or his personal life or whatever but if he comes around and those things bothering him change, he'll be back. He has the whole game in there and he's thrashing around trying to find it . The odds on him making another major are lengthening and I am getting tempted....

[Chris E]

So which is it? His competition is stronger, or he sux on the weekends in majors? I vote for the latter as the dominant issue here. though I do agree the competition is better.

Why does he suck on the weekends? The competition doesn't make him airmail greens with short irons, miss short birdie putts, and do things like that catastrophe on I think 16 on Friday when he putted from off the green about 20' past the hole. Or, shoot himself out of contention after being in the lead Saturday morning in 2 of the 4 majors, and being I believe in the top five at the British Open after Friday. How is it possible for Tiger fricking Woods to screw that up?

Somebody wrote upthread that he seems fine on the practice range, and I have also heard/read this before. The 'competition' doesn't make him do all the things I just described while on the course in majors, while thorwing darts on the range. Tiger's problems are in his head, period. He is impatient and he is gripping right now because he is stuck on 14, and why he performs better right now in non-majors. Note he blew #15 to YE Yang in 2009 as well.

I don't buy any of the 'swing change' and 'competition' BS. He is feeling pressure.

Originally Posted by muggs

One very important fact that is always overlooked is the fact that today his competition is MUCH better compared to ten years ago. There are great young players on Tour today. When you add that to the constant swing changes, the mental woes, his body breaking down, getting older...these things take their toll.

Consider this, he has not shot an under par round on a Saturday OR Sunday at a Major this season. Did you ever believe you'd hear that about Tiger Woods?

He has been so dominate for so long, I guess it's hard for some people to see what is clearly written on the walls here...the torch is being passed. He was as talented and electric a player the game has ever seen, but his run is over. He'll still win events, he definitely could win another Major, possibly two. But if you were to consider such a fall from grace 8 or 9 years ago, you wouldn't have thought it possible. Back then, you thought he'd win two dozen Majors before he retired.

What drives me crazy is that he is still the only story...I guess that says more about mankind's collective lack of creativity than anything else. In my opinion, it's time to move on. Let's make the great youth movement the tour is seeing the story.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by muggs

Rory is only 23 and has two Majors under his belt. That's special.

That's what people get caught up in. There is so much potential there.

I agree. The announcers on CBS said they heard that he fixed a swing flaw recently and that has fixed his game. I have never seen anyone hit the ball so consistently far and straight as McIlroy did this weekend. His approaches were spot on and his putting was amazing. Of course he can't keep up this level of play but even if he's off a bit it doesn't bode well for the competition. As mentioned he's 23 and already has 2 majors, both of which he won by 8 strokes.

[saevel25]

Well it has to do a lot with swing changes, unless your Bubba Watson these golfers need repetition and consistancy. Especially with Tiger who is a workaholic. When you work on your swing, and make a change, he needs hours upon hours to make that comfortable He's rewriting all those hours he has done before. So there's that, and he's getting better we can see that. Three wins this year is nothing to scoff at.

He is feeling the pressure, he cares to much of what people think of him, no matter what he might tell the media. You can tell because he gets pissed at the media. You can see he tried to fix when he said he tried to play relaxed. Then he goes on, that was a bad idea you know how i am, i am pretty intense guy. So basically his intensity is not working, so he threw that out and tried to play relaxed and it blew up in his face. He doesn't know were to go and he doesn't know why he's messing up. I still think he is rusty on his short game and putting, and he has an issue with left to right winds because he can't cut the ball consistantly, and he ends up pulling it left.

Basically, his game is not sharp at all. Its because he keeps messing with it, and since its not sharp its messing with his mind. He's a thinker to, he takes in everything, he will back away from the shot if the wind changes 1 mph, somehow he knows :p. This gets him into trouble, because the wheels in the head start turning and all of sudden he gone, his mind has totally clogged up the game. When he was good, it was because he KNEW that his swing was there, he KNEW what the ball was going to do, he didn't have uncertainty. He has uncertainty, and its showing.

to fix this, he really needs to stop tinkering with the long game. Accept it at a place he can be at, maybe its not perfect, but he needs to accept some level of completeness in his swing. Then he can go on to the short game and putting and give that attention. Once he's able to have acceptance of his swing, and gain some sort of stability, he'll win more majors. Until then he might have to get lucky to win one, like Rory throwing away the master's a few years ago. Because there are to many guys who can put 4 rounds in the 60's in majors. Its not just Tiger anymore, there's always 1-2 guys who can be there on sunday.

[dash1988]

Ok, first of all im going to get it on record that im a massive tiger fan, hes my favourite golfer and in my oppinion he is the greatest ever regardless of wether he beats jacks 18 major titles.

But after watching him all this year particularly in the majors i cant help but think he has lost it all together.

I acknowledge that theres alot more talent out there than there was in the years when he dominated making it harder for him to win majors but he hasnt even really been close.

He seems to have lost the ability to play well consistantly, he can still bang a good score in and shoot low rounds but seems to be very rare now compared to 5+ years ago, i dont know wether its the divorce or his previous injuries catching up on him or just hes lost his love for the game but he just doesnt seem to have it any more.

Lets look back at his form in majors this year for example straight to the point the masters at augusta was a complete disaster shooting 72-76-72-74 finishing 5 over par t40, the us open was better he played well first 2 rounds then fell to peices over the weekend, the open he was very tentative using his 2 iron stinger from the tee leaving him lengthy approach shot making it hard to attack the pin instead of htting his driver n having a wedge in and the recent pga again played well for the first 2 rounds then crumbling over the weekend.

Mcilroy went on to win it by 8 strokes, alot of golf enthusiasts seem to be trying to build a rivalry between woods and mcilroy calling him the wonderkid and new kid on the block and even saying he will be the one to beat jacks 18 majors n not tiger, if i was woods i would be trying to prove a point and win in a field including mcilroy but he just doesnt seem to be able to do it.

It makes me wonder if he is in fact finished which i hope he proves my wrong by finding form and winning more majors but at this moment in time i just cant see it can you?

[Wansteadimp]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

People are getting caught up in RORSmania.

He seems to be a fair weather player, and his game was on this week. But his game goes up and down and lacks week to week consistency. That indicates he is human, not Tiger-like. Still, RORS is already a dominant player. But he is young, his life is only beginning, and life is not only golf. We'll see what life's ups and downs has for him. Look at Tiger ... only a few years ago, people were predicting 25 majors for him...

Its not week to week consistency he lacks. From this time last year to just before the Masters he was consistently brilliant - a whole host of top 5s a couple of wins. Then from the Masters until last week he was consistently rubbish. All very confusing.

He said on Sky after one of the rounds that he had been spending too much time on the range and not enough playing and that was going to change - which will be good.

[zipazoid]

If Tiger plays a major like he did at Bay Hill (winning by 5), he will win that major. Don't care who's in the field. That's why I think he will win more majors - he still has plenty of game to get it done.

[zipazoid]

One thread not enough for you? -

http://thesandtrap.com/t/52499/can-we-all-finally-agree-that-tiger-is-done