Hank Haney Quote: "You cannot correct a slice hitter, they first must become a hook hitter" - ish

[bmartin461]

When I was watching the last Hank Haney project he mentions that it's impossible (to him) to correct a slicer into a solid straight hitter.  He said you must go from a slice to a hook then you can be tuned to go straight (in the sense of draw back to target).

I have noticed with my progression via Evolvr I have reduced my slice tendencies way down and my off target shots are now 90% hook or pulls.

I was curious if this is true and if so, what is the theory behind it?

Thanks!

Brad

[MEfree]

It mostly makes sense to me.  If you are slicing, you are swinging across the ball.  To correct it you need to get your swing going in to out- this will make you a drawer/hooker.  sure you might go from across to in to in, but I think it is probably easier to overdo this correction then get it to exactly where you want it on the first go, so Haney statement makes sense to me.

[Golfingdad]

No idea what Haney's theories and methods are ... but I love all of Harvey Penick's books and he says something along the same lines.  I don't believe that he actually says that he can't make a slicer hit it straight, but if I remember correctly, he says that he likes to teach you how to hit a hook first, then its easier to teach you how to hit it straight.

I would presume that when the student knows what it feels like to hit a hook and a slice, it would be easier for them to find a middle ground.  Just a guess, though.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by bmartin461

When I was watching the last Hank Haney project he mentions that it's impossible (to him) to correct a slicer into a solid straight hitter.  He said you must go from a slice to a hook then you can be tuned to go straight (in the sense of draw back to target).

I have noticed with my progression via Evolvr I have reduced my slice tendencies way down and my off target shots are now 90% hook or pulls.

I was curious if this is true and if so, what is the theory behind it?

Thanks!

Brad

Hi Brad, my answer is below but for you the pulls are just the face being aimed too straight or too far to the left at impact.  Your recent analysis is a good one to help that.

There really isn't any truth to it.  Haney teaches drawing the ball by "closing the clubface".  Obviously we don't teach that and neither should anyone else.  A lot of slicers actually already have the clubface aimed left of the target at impact.  So it's not the face but the path that needs to change.  That's why we have threads on here about sliding the hips forward and drills with smashing the ground with the handle forward, all draw procedure pieces.

I can see a golfer working on a piece to hit a draw, going from a slice, to something straighter, to a draw and then and overdraw.  The player can overdo it and have the hips too closed for too long, or trying to "fake" getting the path out the right by tipping their head back.

Also important to not that the goal should NEVER be to hit a straight shot, we need to develop a consistent pattern otherwise we bring 2 way misses into the mix.  Most guys on tour have their stock shot that they hit 85% of the time.  Now it may look straighter than our shots :-) but they have some curve bias.

[B-Con]

He may just be referring to the fact that small changes are rarely sufficient to fix major problems in a golf swing. Until you struggle to fight the opposite of the original problem, you probably haven't truly fixed the original problem. Eg, if you're a slicer with a major OTT problem and you eventually change to hit straight, but you can't hook, then you probably don't know the full extent to which you could shift your swing away from OTT and you may gradually fall back into some of the old ways. My $0.02.

[zipazoid]

I can understand from the standpoint that a slicer has to learn what a hook feels like, since it's essentially the opposite move. So it makes sense to try to get a slicer to hook the ball.

But then what?

[iacas]

Completely disagree.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by iacas

Completely disagree.

Explain.

[bmartin461]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Hi Brad, my answer is below but for you the pulls are just the face being aimed too straight or too far to the left at impact.  Your recent analysis is a good one to help that.

There really isn't any truth to it.  Haney teaches drawing the ball by "closing the clubface".  Obviously we don't teach that and neither should anyone else.  A lot of slicers actually already have the clubface aimed left of the target at impact.  So it's not the face but the path that needs to change.  That's why we have threads on here about sliding the hips forward and drills with smashing the ground with the handle forward, all draw procedure pieces.

I can see a golfer working on a piece to hit a draw, going from a slice, to something straighter, to a draw and then and overdraw.  The player can overdo it and have the hips too closed for too long, or trying to "fake" getting the path out the right by tipping their head back.

Also important to not that the goal should NEVER be to hit a straight shot, we need to develop a consistent pattern otherwise we bring 2 way misses into the mix.  Most guys on tour have their stock shot that they hit 85% of the time.  Now it may look straighter than our shots :-) but they have some curve bias.

Thanks for the reply Mike, I appreciate the explanation.

I do feel my swing is much closer to where I want it to be, which is a great feeling.

Brad

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Explain.

You don't need to learn to hook to fix a slice.

I think perhaps you think I was responding to you, but I didn't quote you and wasn't responding to you. :)

[zipazoid]

Oh, I know you weren't responding to me. I was just interested in your take on what Haney said.

[Mr. Desmond]

Haney teaches over-exaggeration to correct a fault. So, to Haney, his statement makes sense. As a Haney student, it did not work for me.

Yes, he does teach turning the back of the left wrist to the ground to close the club face and to help the hands stay ahead of the club head. Yes, he does teach swing to right field to help rid the golfer of the OTT move.

But his method lacked the fundamentals of keeping the arms close to the body, and many of the fundamentals of TGM. Apparently, by swinging the arms, he assumes one moves the lower body into the correct (positions) place.

I think Haney's teaching method has an inherent lack of respect for the student, and possibly, his instructors. His instructors shove, push, but do not explain. There is no explanation of the swing. While you can overwhelm students with too many words, one must teach and instruct the instructors on bringing students along so they can understand.

As to teaching students to eliminate a slice, there are methods are than teaching a hook.

that is my .02.

[Stretch]

Watch at your own risk. (Contains referenced quote plus bonus jackassery.)

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-03/behind-the-scenes-hank-haney

[LuciusWooding]

Haney has a bit of an ego. I don't listen to much of anything he says since he's an attention *****.

I will say that a hook swing is infinitely better form in terms of developing power, which is why so many people consider a draw the holy grail of ball flights. If you teach a slicer to straighten it out, he won't build up much power whereas a hooker will hit it much longer. But a fade is a perfectly cromulent ball flight and more consistent than a draw.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Haney has a bit of an ego. I don't listen to much of anything he says since he's an attention *****.

I will say that a hook swing is infinitely better form in terms of developing power, which is why so many people consider a draw the holy grail of ball flights. If you teach a slicer to straighten it out, he won't build up much power whereas a hooker will hit it much longer. But a fade is a perfectly cromulent ball flight and more consistent than a draw.

The problem with celebrity status: it exposes you to an extent. But then, it exposes you to people who have issues, and you get all sorts of stories and opinions. It's the circle of opinion. lol.

With golf, I think what we've learned is there is no one answer. Each student is unique, they may fall into patterns, but the words and visual techniques/methods an instructor selects for a student that takes that student to a higher level is what separates great instructors from the also-rans, and the garbage.

[Paradox]

Can you not teach someone to throw a baseball right handed until they've thrown one left handed?  Can you not teach someone how to write left handed if they haven't written with their right first?

To me, it sounds like "hey instructors...use this line on your students and you'll be able to charge for a few more lessons!"

[The Tin Man]

My first lesson (not from Haney) was "how to hook".  Not really....but that's what it looked like.

Anyway, when I slice I'm lost, but a hook can lead me back to a playable game.

[poser]

Looks like he is going to create  a world of Jim furyk swings with .001% the talent.