65/20/15 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time

[rpsetser]

On 6/10/2012 at 4:49 PM, ladders11 said:

My first problem with the 65-25-10 argument is that pros rely on their long games more than amateurs.  The pros expect to hit the green with their long irons and they work on this aspect of their game so they can get within 10 feet and make more birdies.  Tour pros hit 12-13 greens per round, whereas the average 10-handicapper hits 4-5.  Amateurs have many more short game shots per round and these shots make more of a difference on the scorecard.

 

Second problem is that the short game is full of different strokes: full wedge, chipping, pitching, bunker, and putting.  Add to this the fact that many short game shots come from the rough, from awkward stances, imperfect lies, and from hills.  And, to hold the green, we need to have the ability to vary our trajectory and control the spin.

 

I don't disagree that it is also important to get off the tee, but for most of us this is the same swing from the same stance 12-14 times per round.  If I hit one good drive, I would love to copy and paste that drive onto all the other driver holes on the course.  Yet if I hit a good shot from 50 yards and in, chances are I won't use that same shot more than twice.  How many bunkers does the average golfer reach per round?  For me, it has always been 1 or 2 at most.  Sadly, there have been too many times in the past when I've gone into the bunker and taken 2+ to get out, or blasted it over the green.

 

So I practice the variety of shots in my short game (from 100 yards and in) with the hope that I will be able to get up-and-down once in a while for birdie or to save par, and of course not blade the ball over the green, pitch into the bunker, or come up short with a wedge, thereby eliminating the doubles and triples.

I can see what you mean here, but I would counter that working on your long game would assist you in hitting more GIR, thus eliminating a high percentage of those short game shots.

[oregongolfguy]

  The premise is that yeah, us hackers don't hit nearly enough gir or ngir.  obviously you do practice your short game and putting, the 25 and 10.  If you simplify your shot selection and approach to this with some basic instruction then it should not be overly difficult to get at least competent in the short game arena.  However, getting a sound full swing so you can hit more GIR hence giving yourself more easy pars and birdie chances is alot harder to accomplish.  Hence why it takes more practice then the short game and putting.  Learning how to use the bounce of a wedge, hitting a basic pitch shot is not overly difficult with a little practice, same with basic putting.  pitching on the green and making either par or bogey....mission accomplished.  Now, hitting more greens or really close in a good spot to have a easier pitch shot.  That is the trick to taking the next step so to speak....imho

[iacas]

My work here is still not done…

[David in FL]

Good grief.  Did he really write that?  

Some people should learn to read out loud what they write before releasing it.  Maybe if they actually heard what they were saying...

 

[Hardspoon]

28 minutes ago, iacas said:

My work here is still not done…

On 33% of plays in the NFL, the QB hands the ball off to a runner...so they should practice hand-offs more than long throws!

I'm going to revolutionize the NFL.

[zipazoid]

My general rule of thumb, numerically, is:

If I hit a third of the greens in regulation, those 6 holes take care of themselves. Even par at worse.

If I get up & down on half of the 12 greens I miss, there's 6 pars.

That leaves 6 "others" which should almost always be 6 bogies.

That's 6 over par 78. I'll take that every time.

So, to me. to make that strategy work, I better be pretty good with my chipping/pitching. I better be getting those shots inside 10 feet...at least half the time. And, obviously, be getting the ball somewhere on or around the green in regulation. If I'm not, then I better be getting my full swing in shape. 

Which is what I am presently doing (nod to you, Erik, and the 65/20/15) - if I'm not sniffing the green in regulation, doesn't matter how well I pitch or putt. I'm making at best bogey. I guess that's why I'm logging so much time on the range with full shots - my strategy can't work until that's in order.

Edited June 8, 2017 by zipazoid

[billchao]

58 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Great advice. Take the 100 shooter and focus solely on putting, transforming that player into a PGA Tour caliber putter and you'll have someone who shoots 95 with 30 putts per round. Good luck breaking 90.

[iacas]

On 6/7/2017 at 7:30 PM, David in FL said:

Good grief.  Did he really write that?  

Some people should learn to read out loud what they write before releasing it.  Maybe if they actually heard what they were saying...

If the guy ONE-PUTTS EVERY GREEN (all 18 of 'em) he's still not breaking 80. 64+18=82.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BU24sguDvMD/ - There's the post if anyone wants to comment themselves. Be civil. Smart.

On 6/7/2017 at 7:35 PM, Hardspoon said:

On 33% of plays in the NFL, the QB hands the ball off to a runner...so they should practice hand-offs more than long throws!

I'm going to revolutionize the NFL.

Ha ha ha. I love it.

On 6/7/2017 at 7:52 PM, zipazoid said:

Which is what I am presently doing (nod to you, Erik, and the 65/20/15) - if I'm not sniffing the green in regulation, doesn't matter how well I pitch or putt. I'm making at best bogey. I guess that's why I'm logging so much time on the range with full shots - my strategy can't work until that's in order.

Yep. Hit more greens. There's a reason that, generally speaking, 95-2*GIR is a good way to approximate your score. Most people get up and down and putt at a pretty similar rate.

On 6/7/2017 at 8:05 PM, billchao said:

Great advice. Take the 100 shooter and focus solely on putting, transforming that player into a PGA Tour caliber putter and you'll have someone who shoots 95 with 30 putts per round. Good luck breaking 90.

Yeah.

As we often point out, PGA Tour players tap in 12.5% of the time, roughly.

So clearly they should practice tapping in for about 45 minutes per day (assuming they practice six hours per day).

Oh, and the unfortunate thing is…

He's made essentially the same post before.

[freshmanUTA]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, seriously. Hell, if the guy ONE-PUTTS EVERY GREEN (all 18 of 'em) he's still not breaking 80.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BU24sguDvMD/ - There's the post if anyone wants to comment themselves. Be civil. Smart.

Ha ha ha. I love it.

Yep. Hit more greens. There's a reason that, generally speaking, 95-2*GIR is a good way to approximate your score. Most people get up and down and putt at a pretty similar rate.

Yeah.

As we often point out, PGA Tour players tap in 12.5% of the time, roughly.

So clearly they should practice tapping in for about 45 minutes per day (assuming they practice six hours per day).

Oh, and the really unfortunate thing is…

He's made basically the same post before.

Heres the best comment: "I putt at the least an hour a day, you can all say what you will but,what good is sticking one close with your "ball striking" If you can't turn anything inside ten feet to a birdie or eagle? I'd rather have the confidence of draining a putt I need, than worrying about yipping one off the tee box. Just my honest opinion.. cheers!??⛳"

 

Yeah, screw you people who can hit the ball close every time!!! I'd rather NOT do that!!! I'll save my bogey from behind the trees every time rather than have a chance at birdie!

[Jack Watson]

I've never been a short game putting guy.  It just always seemed obvious that eliminating the chip is a better way to score consistently.

I know outside of occasionally,  I won't make many putts outside ten feet.  I do know though that when I keep up on practice I can hit greens.  

I play with a guy who is a believer that score is all short game.  Well for him it is,  he doesn't hit many greens so he's chipping all day.  It's rare that he ever beats me.  I outdrive him significantly and have easier shots in and I make better shots in.  He will still tell anyone that listens how important chipping and putting are though.

Practicing short game is important if you can't avoid wasting strokes around the greens on the basic stuff.  Past that I dunno.  You gotta get your reads right most of the time and develop a feel for speed but past that those 3-4 footers are what I would practice if I was into putting.  Missing ones you should make is a waste.

GIR is the number one thing to me.  It's always just seemed like common sense.

 

 

 

 

[zipazoid]

10 hours ago, freshmanUTA said:

Heres the best comment: "I putt at the least an hour a day, you can all say what you will but,what good is sticking one close with your "ball striking" If you can't turn anything inside ten feet to a birdie or eagle? I'd rather have the confidence of draining a putt I need, than worrying about yipping one off the tee box. Just my honest opinion.. cheers!??⛳"

 

Yeah, screw you people who can hit the ball close every time!!! I'd rather NOT do that!!! I'll save my bogey from behind the trees every time rather than have a chance at birdie!

Yet in his own graphic, pros are only 50% from 6 feet. Do they respond by practicing 6 footers more than they already do, or do they work on giving them more opportunities FOR bird or eagle?

Further, he says amateurs are 40% from 6 feet, so only 10 percentage points worse than pros. That's pretty comparable - if a pro has 10 tries from 6 feet, he makes on average 5 of them. An amateur, 4. So a pro will convert one more out of 10 than the amateur.

But what's the REAL difference between the pro & amateur? The amateur doesn't even get the 10 chances - maybe one or two per round (if that). The pro is in there often. So the pro is making more birds not because they're better at making 6 footers, but because they have more opportunities to make them.

Figures lie & liars figure.

[p1n9183]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

My work here is still not done…

According to that stat a pro do it 10% better each shot than an amateur inside 12 feet.
I have 11 putts inside 10 feet per round and my stroke gained putting from that range 3-10 feet its -1,1´. So 0,1 (10%) stroke lost each shot. im an average putting player. I Thought I was an awfull putting player :D 

[Vinsk]

I actually had an email discussion with Brian regarding this and invited him to this forum to present his view point. Unfortunately he declined. Strange, you'd think he would want to see the current information since he's an instructor or at least defend what he seems to think is accurate.

[dennyjones]

If I was playing a round (have to be practice) and could have a professional hit only one shot per hole...It would be a no brainer to have them tee off instead of putting.   Today I had 32 putts and only two 3 putts.  The pro might have saved me the 2 3 putts but  would have saved me more from the tee box.

[p1n9183]

I re-check my stats on Away tournaments and here their are. Scoring average of 78 (+6).

Tee-Shoot and Lay-Ups :  0,18 stroke lost each shot. X 17 shots per round = 3,06 stroke lost
Approach to green: 0,11 strokes lost each shot. X 16 shots per round = 1,76 stroke lost
Around the green: 0,07 stroke lost each shot X 10 shots per round = 0,7 stroke lost
Putting: 0,12 stroke lost each shot X 21 shots per round = 2,52 stroke lost

So if a pro would hit all my shots from an specific area i will definitivly let him play all my Tee-Shoots and Lay-Ups and I will gain automatically 3 strokes.  

[iacas]

On 6/8/2017 at 7:22 AM, zipazoid said:

Yet in his own graphic, pros are only 50% from 6 feet. Do they respond by practicing 6 footers more than they already do, or do they work on giving them more opportunities FOR bird or eagle?

The stat isn't even accurate, assuming he's talking about PGA Tour pros. They're 50% from 8'.

From 6' a scratch golfer is 55%:

So who knows where those numbers come from…

On 6/8/2017 at 11:15 AM, Vinsk said:

I actually had an email discussion with Brian regarding this and invited him to this forum to present his view point. Unfortunately he declined. Strange, you'd think he would want to see the current information since he's an instructor or at least defend what he seems to think is accurate.

Every Shot Counts, Lowest Score Wins… 

This stuff, sorry, but it's really just bad information.

Tell Brian that if he'd like he can email me directly.

[Vinsk]

On 6/8/2017 at 4:36 PM, iacas said:

Tell Brian that if he'd like he can email me directly.

I certainly did. Hopefully he will. I know it's an uphill battle but I sure like to see instructors be updated and not put out bogus information. There are still concepts I'm learning but the whole 'putt for dough' needs to die a quick death.

[iacas]

On 6/8/2017 at 4:47 PM, Vinsk said:

I certainly did. Hopefully he will. I know it's an uphill battle but I sure like to see instructors be updated and not put out bogus information. There are still concepts I'm learning but the whole 'putt for dough' needs to die a quick death.

Disappointing that he'd put that out there in THIS day and age. I meant it a bit when I said "my work here is not done." I'm trying to make better information available. A lot of it I do free here.