2013 Barclay's Championship Discussion Thread

[Jeremie Boop]

When has Tiger ever made excuses for a bad shot before? Why would he do it now?

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by phan52

It is my opinion he was being over-dramatic. Deal with it.

As are you.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I do believe Tiger had back issues. Could he have gone to his knees simply because of the pain? Sure. To all you naysayers, isn't it also possible that he hammed it up a bit simply because of the terrible shot? If you answer no to this question, then you are doing the same thing that Phan had done, saying that your opinion is fact...

IF we're going to play this medical speculation game, why not consider all context?  Why not consider the merits of the shot in question?  When is the last time you saw Tiger playing well (finished T-2) in a tournament, and pull a 3w as far left as he did?  Is it not completely possible that the reason he missed by that much was due to the back?  Why does everybody assume that the best player in the world, playing well, hit a poor shot completely unrelated to pain and then used pain as an excuse only afterwards?

If you're going to speculate, you absolutely have to consider that pain causing the bad shot is one of the likeliest results, or you're being disingenuous.  Tiger makes plenty of bad swings that he doesn't pretend hurt him or wince in pain.  But when he makes a bad swing and winces in pain, people assume the only reason he winced was because of the bad shot, and never consider that the bad shot was a result of pain.  It's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

When has Tiger ever made excuses for a bad shot before? Why would he do it now?

Exactly.  Now, that's not to say Tiger has never made excuses before.  But there are plenty of times he makes bad shots and doesn't feign injury.  So to assume that the only time he does is when he's faking is ignoring reality.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by phan52

Dude, you need to lighten up. Also, get your sarcasm detector checked because it is defective. Part of what I said was facetiously remarking on the level of the drama.

Sarcasm?  When were you being sarcastic?  Please refer back to post #128 for my response to this part.

But you are right that I need to lighten up.  I am really, really high strung ... ask anybody. ;)

Originally Posted by phan52

As I've stated before, I HAVE had them and I will state once more whether you like it or not:

Yeah, but if you go back and pay attention to my post, I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to boilermaker.  The way he describes Tiger's reactions shows that he doesn't understand that kind of pain.

Originally Posted by phan52

it is a FACT that he would not have been on a golf course. You have no idea what I was going through. So get off the high horse.

Holy crap, lol! You don't actually proofread the stuff you write before you hit send, do you? Carefully re-read this part a couple of times, think about it for a second, go like this , and then let's all have a little chuckle.  Let's try this instead (corrections are bold and italicized) ...

Originally Posted by phan52

it is a FACT that I would not have been on a golf course. However, I realize I have no idea what he was going through. So I will now get off the high horse.

[theworldengine]

Lol. Do the tiger haters consider that the back pain occured after the shot, and Tiger never really wanted us all to believe the spasm causes the bad shot.

[tmac20]

Tiger's aggressive swing is not designed for a near 40-year-old body.

[theworldengine]

Btw, a couple weeks ago Spieth wanted to blame a slamming door on a piss poor approach shot. That was LOL

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by phan52

Now who is being disingenuous?

You are.  You're comparing him trying to rehabilitate his off-course image and conflating it with a (self-induced) belief that he over-dramatizes injuries to also rehabilitate his image on the course.  The two are completely unrelated, and suggesting they have to be the same is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by phan52

I watched in a room with five other people and we would all disagree with you. Yeah, he was hurting, but not to the degree that the pandering idiots on TV made it out to be. Unfortunately, unlike the vast majority of players on the PGA Tour Tiger is going to get the benefit of the doubt from the golf powers-that-be, whether the media or the tour. The ruling at the Masters was a case-in-point.

As I've stated before, I HAVE had them and I will state once more whether you like it or not:  if he had them to the level I had them 30 years ago, it is a FACT that he would not have been on a golf course. You have no idea what I was going through. So get off the high horse.

It is my opinion he was being over-dramatic. Deal with it.

You are starting to come off as the idiot now.  Nearly everything you wrote here assumes:

1) He could not be hurting to the level he displayed, which you have absolutely ZERO basis for believing other than your own pain which you couldn't golf through (which somehow leads you to believe Tiger must be faking but not consider that he could be tougher than you...go figure).

2) That you have friends that in no way could also be idiots.  Everybody else must be the idiots.

3) A conspiracy exists to give Tiger the benefit of the doubt and no other golfers...despite the media scrutiny that Tiger gets above and beyond what other golfers get.

4) The Masters was an illustration of point #3, despite that entire argument having been hashed out and PROVEN false with a prior precedent.

5) A definition of fact which continues to escape you.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Holy crap, lol! You don't actually proofread the stuff you write before you hit send, do you? Carefully re-read this part a couple of times, think about it for a second, go like this , and then let's all have a little chuckle.  Let's try this instead (corrections are bold and italicized) ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

it is a FACT that I would not have been on a golf course. However, I realize I have no idea what he was going through. So I will now get off the high horse.

You still don't get it. I don't have to know the level of Tiger's pain. I DO know he was OK with walking 72 holes and playing golf. I am talking about MY level. And there is no way anybody (and that means me, Tiger, or the man on the moon) would have been on the golf course with the level of debilitating pain I was in. THAT is what I said, and I stand by it.

Seriously, get over it.

[boil3rmak3r]

No, he's an idiot (your word, not mine) for INSISTING that his opinion was a fact.  The post you quoted, in and of itself, is fine, but he stated repeatedly - prior to being called out - that his opinion was "fact."  (It's also not the first time he's done that so I have a bit of a quick trigger in response to him) Nobody else has said that they KNOW exactly what Tiger is feeling or going through, so we have no reason to think that his reactions are anything but genuine.  We're not saying anything isn't possible, just saying what we think is most likely.  Presumably (since you're a member of this board) you follow a lot of golf, so let me ask you this:  Can you cite an example of something Tiger has done or said in the past where he gave off even the slightest inkling of an impression that he actually gave a f**k what anybody thought of him?  Why would he decide now, on this particular random shot, that he worried what we'd all think of him to the point that he needed to justify his bad shot to us?  Do understand where I'm coming from?  Further, it was been cited in this thread, that a few years ago he showed that he was in a lot of pain on the golf course, and it turned out that he was winning a US Open with a broken leg.  Surely, you wouldn't suggest that he was "hamming it up" then, would you? Lastly, as I've said before, I have had back spasms numerous times in the past and some of the reactions I've had are very similar to his.  The stuff in your post that I highlighted in bold makes it pretty clear to me that you have not had serious back problems before. :)  (Consider yourself lucky!!!)

First, I agree that stating any of our opinions on this as fact is not right. As for whether Tiger gives a hoot what we think or whether he's ever done this before is certainly debatable. Even though Tiger may say that injuries weren't the issue during a press conference after a round, don't you think he still understands that every golf shot he hits is being filmed? I am no PR expert, but I can certainly play the game of wincing on the golf course and saying afterwards that the injury didn't hamper me. That's perfect! Then, the media can say that he made no excuses and say how heroic he was by showing all the swings he made on the golf course where he was in excruciating pain. I'm sorry you've had back issues, but I think your correlation between your injuries and anyone else is weak. Who knows the extent of your injury compared to Tigers. If Tiger's pain was exactly like yours (which you have no clue if it was), then your argument would hold water. But you have no clue... As for the broken leg... I think Tiger was amazing... A broken leg, however, comes in varying degrees. Let's don't categorize it as a compound fracture that he was playing through... When I was 13 years old, I slid into home plate only to have the catcher land flat on top of me. My right arm hurt (I'm a righty), but I stayed in the game, playing shortstop. As the doctor visit verified the next day, I played the last 3 innings with a "broken" right arm. I guess I was heroic that day. Although, I had no clue my arm was broken and just played with the pain. I just can't get over the fact that I have never seen Freddie go down on his knees, or Phil wincing in pain after shots... I've played with very good golfers that have legit injuries and don't try to draw attention to it. I've also played with very good golfers that let you know after certain shots that they are in pain (usually bad shots...). Tiger, to me, comes across as the latter...

[phan52]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

You are.  You're comparing him trying to rehabilitate his off-course image and conflating it with a (self-induced) belief that he over-dramatizes injuries to also rehabilitate his image on the course.  The two are completely unrelated, and suggesting they have to be the same is ridiculous.

You are starting to come off as the idiot now.  Nearly everything you wrote here assumes:

1) He could not be hurting to the level he displayed, which you have absolutely ZERO basis for believing other than your own pain which you couldn't golf through (which somehow leads you to believe Tiger must be faking but not consider that he could be tougher than you...go figure).

2) That you have friends that in no way could also be idiots.  Everybody else must be the idiots.

3) A conspiracy exists to give Tiger the benefit of the doubt and no other golfers...despite the media scrutiny that Tiger gets above and beyond what other golfers get.

4) The Masters was an illustration of point #3, despite that entire argument having been hashed out and PROVEN false with a prior precedent.

5) A definition of fact which continues to escape you.

Wow. You really are delusional, aren't you?  You seriously do not believe that Tiger gets the benefit of the doubt that other golfers do not get? What world do you live in?

The media, especially the TV guys, fall at his feet in fear of not having access. The guys who try to tell it like it is, like John Feinstein, are shut out. It's not a conspiracy, which would imply that it is something done insideously hidden behind closed doors. It is right out in the open. And there is no way the incident in Augusta would have had the same level of scrutiny by the officials there if it was someone else. Anybody else would have been summarily DQed, but they found a way with Tiger.

And BTW, I haven't used the word "idiot" to describe anybody else posting in this thread (like some others are inclined to do), but I am getting perilously close.

And now I am coming off as a Tiger basher/hater and that is just not true. He is the best player in the world as we speak and it is always more interesting when the best player in the world is in the mix. It doesn't mean I don't think he is a bit of a drama queen. I always have, it didn't start this past weekend.

[boil3rmak3r]

And BTW, I haven't used the word "idiot" to describe anybody else posting in this thread (like some others are inclined to do), but I am getting perilously close.

Sorry, phan, I wasn't calling anyone an idiot...

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

And BTW, I haven't used the word "idiot" to describe anybody else posting in this thread (like some others are inclined to do), but I am getting perilously close.

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

Sorry, phan, I wasn't calling anyone an idiot...

That wasn't directed toward you. They know who they are.

[Ernest Jones]

Sorry, phan, I wasn't calling anyone an idiot...

...however...

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by phan52

That wasn't directed toward you. They know who they are.

This is the post that should get you in trouble.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I'm sorry you've had back issues, but I think your correlation between your injuries and anyone else is weak. Who knows the extent of your injury compared to Tigers. If Tiger's pain was exactly like yours (which you have no clue if it was), then your argument would hold water. But you have no clue...

Nobody has any friggin clue.  That's the entire point.  But that hasn't stopped people from suggesting that he WASN'T in enough pain to wince the way he did.

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r

I just can't get over the fact that I have never seen Freddie go down on his knees, or Phil wincing in pain after shots... I've played with very good golfers that have legit injuries and don't try to draw attention to it. I've also played with very good golfers that let you know after certain shots that they are in pain (usually bad shots...). Tiger, to me, comes across as the latter...

I have seen golfers wince in pain, including Phil Mickelson and others.  And how would you know that a person has a legit injury but doesn't draw attention to it?  You may want to ponder that for a second before you respond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Wow. You really are delusional, aren't you?  You seriously do not believe that Tiger gets the benefit of the doubt that other golfers do not get? What world do you live in?

The media, especially the TV guys, fall at his feet in fear of not having access. The guys who try to tell it like it is, like John Feinstein, are shut out. It's not a conspiracy, which would imply that it is something done insideously hidden behind closed doors. It is right out in the open. And there is no way the incident in Augusta would have had the same level of scrutiny by the officials there if it was someone else. Anybody else would have been summarily DQed, but they found a way with Tiger.

And BTW, I haven't used the word "idiot" to describe anybody else posting in this thread (like some others are inclined to do), but I am getting perilously close.

And now I am coming off as a Tiger basher/hater and that is just not true. He is the best player in the world as we speak and it is always more interesting when the best player in the world is in the mix. It doesn't mean I don't think he is a bit of a drama queen. I always have, it didn't start this past weekend.

Yeah, I'M the one who's delusional.  Tiger gets the benefit of the doubt that other golfers don't get.  There's absolutely no evidence to the contrary.

Okay, are we back in reality now?  Or do you really believe the inane bull**** that you've been typing the last few hours?  Feinstein "tells it like it is" now?  Sorry, but you lose credibility with that: http://bit.ly/M0QchF http://thesandtrap.com/t/59807/2012-at-t-national-at-congressional-country-club-discussion-thread/162#post_735511

Again, your complete ignorance of facts regarding Augusta has you coming off more and more like an idiot with each post.  Try reading up on it.

Feel free to call me whatever names you want.  I personally don't care, because there's no merit to it.  But your posts speak for themselves.  Either stop posting idiotic stuff, or deal with the assertion.

[Motley01]

Originally Posted by MSchott

This is the post that should get you in trouble.

He's from Philly, you will never win the argument with him.

[Crim]

It's sad that Adam Scott's win has been overshadowed by another Tiger debate.