Pregnant Student Athletes Losing Scholarships

[dsc123]

The more interesting question, and this is probably what Erik was getting at, is what the ncaa rules or school contracts should say. In my view, in answering that question the arguments about personal responsibility or living up to your end are irrelevant because "your end" will be defined by the rules or contract. I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.

[Jakester23]

There is part of me that thinks they should keep their scholarship. But birth control is very cheap even free in a number of places. Its such a tough thing for me to have a strong opinion on when its impossible for me to be in that situation.

[iacas]

I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.

I don't see those situations as all that similar. Pregnancy is virtually 100% preventable, and IS 100% preventable if you abstain. In both situations, I think the athlete should lose his scholarship. If you can't minimize risk for four years in exchange for $200,000 of education, tough beans. I also think that athletes injured playing, training, or practicing their sport should keep their scholarships. That could lead to a few grey areas in the football player injured playing basketball scenario, but would never include pregnancy or someone getting in a motorcycle accident, for example.

[hacker101]

The more interesting question, and this is probably what Erik was getting at, is what the ncaa rules or school contracts should say. In my view, in answering that question the arguments about personal responsibility or living up to your end are irrelevant because "your end" will be defined by the rules or contract. I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

[Golfingdad]

Sure. And usually the contract will say what constitutes a beach and what the penalty will be. I've got no problem with the boot if that's in the contract, but we don't have it.

I'm pretty sure it's just sand next to a body of water ... but I could be wrong.

I agree that we dont have the contract. But say there was no contract at all do you think that they should or should not lose there scholarship if they can not play for 9 months?

The scholarship IS the contract, no?

I thought that what dsc originally posted was accurate ... that they don't really need a whole lot of reasons to take away a scholarship.  And although I can't cite them, I'm sure I've heard sad stories about guys who've lost their football scholarships after getting injured WHILE playing football for that college.  Again, I can't cite any specific cases, but I think that is (or was) true.

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Alternate idea:  They could just give her a "redshirt" season, couldn't they?  If the girl says "I really want to start a family, but I promise I'll bust my butt after the baby is born and I have plenty of help from my husband/boyfriend and my parents so it won't interfere with my training next year" I could see them being OK with that.  Especially at, say, a place like BYU or Utah. ;)

I wonder what happens with the WNBAers when they take time off to have kids.  I'm guessing that they have things in their agent-negotiated contracts to account for such things though.

[hacker101]

I'm pretty sure it's just sand next to a body of water ... but I could be wrong.

The scholarship IS the contract, no?

I thought that what dsc originally posted was accurate ... that they don't really need a whole lot of reasons to take away a scholarship.  And although I can't cite them, I'm sure I've heard sad stories about guys who've lost their football scholarships after getting injured WHILE playing football for that college.  Again, I can't cite any specific cases, but I think that is (or was) true.

All I was getting at is dsc was correct we dont have a contract per say to read. In that a contract it could say what would be accepted or not?

And it is very sad that a player who got hurt playing the game they got a scholarship for would be dropped, that i agree is wrong.

But that is not the case at point, a woman has that choice to take birthcontrol or abstain from sex for 4 years. And I agree with iacas 4 years for a education is not a long time, to get a free education. All about choices, we all have them for the most part.

[saevel25]

I voted "Yes", but I am not sure if it is clear cut. I could say, a football player who has a season ending injury doesn't usually get his scholarship revoked, so why should a pregnant woman? Though I can also say that the scholarship is for them to compete athletically, so if they are not, then why should they have one.

It is a delicate situation I think.

[David in FL]

I voted "Yes", but I am not sure if it is clear cut. I could say, a football player who has a season ending injury doesn't usually get his scholarship revoked, so why should a pregnant woman? Though I can also say that the scholarship is for them to compete athletically, so if they are not, then why should they have one.  It is a delicate situation I think.

The football player didn't make the personal choice to engage in an activity, off the field, that he knew could cause him to be unable to meet his obligation. No comparison.

[saevel25]

Sure it is, its a matter of if the player can play the sport. What if that player injured himself by crashing his car, or hurts himself doing sort of other activity other than his sport?

[iacas]

Sure it is, its a matter of if the player can play the sport. What if that player injured himself by crashing his car, or hurts himself doing sort of other activity other than his sport?

I don't think they're comparable at all.

[billchao]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

If you want to create a hard comparison its more like a guy that runs down the stairs in dorm, slips, and breaks his leg.  In a perfect world, they both would have been more careful.

I'm sorry, but a slip and fall accident is not analogous to pregnancy.

In this example, I feel that the football player should lose his scholarship (unless the school recruited him for basketball, too). Nothing wrong with having other sporting interests, but again, I feel this would be a personal decision unrelated to the scholarship criteria that causes the athlete to fail to meet his obligations. How would you feel if the football player broke his ankle BASE jumping instead of playing basketball?

Alternate idea:  They could just give her a "redshirt" season, couldn't they?  If the girl says "I really want to start a family, but I promise I'll bust my butt after the baby is born and I have plenty of help from my husband/boyfriend and my parents so it won't interfere with my training next year" I could see them being OK with that.  Especially at, say, a place like BYU or Utah. ;)

I like this idea. Give the girl a chance to come back and redeem herself without jeopardizing her education. And who doesn't love a comeback story? Actually I really like this idea.

[saevel25]

Ok, I get what your saying, but in terms of the injured player it isn't cut and dry.

To me what's the difference if a woman gets drunk, sleeps with a guy, gets pregnant.  Compared to a guy who gets drunk, gets in an accident and gets injured.

To me both actions are totally on the athlete in question. Both should have their scholarships revoked. So I guess I can't see were a situation would arise for a woman who is pregnant, and keep a scholarship. I also wont say that all injuries should keep a male athlete on scholarship.

[David in FL]

[quote name="saevel25" url="/t/70713/pregnant-student-athletes-losing-scholarships/18#post_911455"]Sure it is, its a matter of if the player can play the sport. What if that player injured himself by crashing his car, or hurts himself doing sort of other activity other than his sport? [/quote] If the injury was a result of the player recklessly participating in an activity that he knew could cause him to be unable to fulfill the obligation he agreed to in exchange for his education, then yes, he should have no expectation that the school will continue his free ride. Self inflicted due to his/her own bad decision making, and as Erik said earlier, 100% preventable. Edited to add that from your last post, it looks like we now agree. :beer:

[RonTheSavage]

I voted yes, I wouldve voted HELL yes if I couldve

[Golfingdad]

To me what's the difference if a woman gets drunk, sleeps with a guy, gets pregnant.  Compared to a guy who gets drunk, gets in an accident and gets injured.

To me both actions are totally on the athlete in question. Both should have their scholarships revoked. So I guess I can't see were a situation would arise for a woman who is pregnant, and keep a scholarship. I also wont say that all injuries should keep a male athlete on scholarship.

Yeah, I agree with this.  Like I said before, I'm not even sure that people always get to keep their scholarships when they have career ending injuries that happen during that sport.  It sucks, royally, but I think sometimes, thems just the breaks.

And with pregnancy, there is absolutely a double standard, because consider this:  A guy can make the EXACT same mistake as the woman (get drunk, have unprotected sex, make a baby) yet because of biology, he is not punished nearly as much as the girl.  It sucks, it really does.  But, like Erik says, tough beans.

This is really funny because right now I'm in the frame of mind of trying to sympathize with the woman, and I started to say that I'd like to think that a school would do the right thing and revoke a mans scholarship in that same situation.  Say something like "He was expelled from school for conduct detrimental yadda yadda ..."  But that's more a matter of perspective, because I just remembered the story of Brandon Davies from a couple of years ago ... http://espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6175090 and that's not at all how I felt then.  I totally sympathized with him so ... I'm torn.

Basically, I guess it boils down to, if you voluntarily do something (that you shouldn't be doing) that causes you to be unable to play your sport, then you probably will lose your scholarship.

I voted yes, I wouldve voted HELL yes if I couldve

You just did. ;)

[mvmac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Alternate idea:  They could just give her a "redshirt" season, couldn't they?  If the girl says "I really want to start a family, but I promise I'll bust my butt after the baby is born and I have plenty of help from my husband/boyfriend and my parents so it won't interfere with my training next year" I could see them being OK with that.  Especially at, say, a place like BYU or Utah. ;)

Redshirting could also be an option.  I think that would be fine.  Most golfers have to red shirt a year anyway, at least that was my experience.  Golfers miss a lot of class, tournaments on Monday and Tuesday don't help lol

I don't think they're comparable at all.

Agree

And with pregnancy, there is absolutely a double standard, because consider this:  A guy can make the EXACT same mistake as the woman (get drunk, have unprotected sex, make a baby) yet because of biology, he is not punished nearly as much as the girl.  It sucks, it really does.  But, like Erik says, tough beans.

Yes tough beans but Title IX provides a huge opportunity for female golfers.  Division I women's college golf team can have up to six full scholarships for girls while only a maximum of 4.5 for boys.  You also don't have to shoot that great to be on a women's golf team team.  Usually these scholarships are split between all the members on the team, but you can see it's a lot easier to get close to a full scholarship as a female. According to this article in 2010 there were 217 Division I and 90 Division II colleges that offer girls golf scholarships. The NCAA estimated that in 2009 more than 200 out of approximately 1,800 girls golf scholarships went unused.

[David in FL]

And with pregnancy, there is absolutely a double standard, because consider this:  A guy can make the EXACT same mistake as the woman (get drunk, have unprotected sex, make a baby) yet because of biology, he is not punished nearly as much as the girl.  It sucks, it really does.  But, like Erik says, tough beans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Basically, I guess it boils down to, if you voluntarily do something (that you shouldn't be doing) that causes you to be unable to play your sport, then you probably will should lose your scholarship.

Agree......with the fix as noted.

[misty_mountainhop]

No. It's sex discrimination. Pure and simple.