Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 2225 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
29 minutes ago, Mr22putt said:

1) Played them all.....I really like all the Bellingham courses....my least fav is NBGC....kinda boring but has the best winter conditions...Bellingham is a golf mecca......what??....no love for Homestead, Semiahmoo or Loomis Trail?

Semiahmoo is a dark horse resort that goes under the radar.....good for corporate shindigs too.

2) I might be Canadian but I'm no gentleman....you'd remember me if we played golf....I'm a Chinese POSER.🤣

I forgot Homestead, Loomis Trail and Semiahmoo.  I won't play Semiahmoo any longer, with so many homes lining all the fairways it feels like I'm playing golf in someone's backyard.  It was a great course when they first opened, designed by Arnold Palmer.  In fact, he was there to open and play the first round at the course.


  • Moderator
Posted
5 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Or, like getting behind a slow driver:  The sooner you need to get home or get to your girlfriend's house or a doctor's appointment or the store or start the barbecue, the longer the round.

Murphy's golf law, lol.

 

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I forgot Homestead, Loomis Trail and Semiahmoo.  I won't play Semiahmoo any longer, with so many homes lining all the fairways it feels like I'm playing golf in someone's backyard.  It was a great course when they first opened, designed by Arnold Palmer.  In fact, he was there to open and play the first round at the course.

Got a 2 for 1 coupon for Semiahmoo a few years ago....so it was a no brainer to go play.

Yes, there is housing but IMO...it's not too encroaching.....still a fairly solid track.

Only played Loomis once....hazard filled....but that's ok...I like a challenge.

Homestead is ok as it's the best value for we Canucks....good twilight rates, closet to our border and takes Cdn $ at par...so it's a good value.

I don't have Nexus...so it's a bit of a pain to travel across the border nowadays....but good for a road trip too...the $ savings on a full gas tank can pay for a return trip gas cost.


Posted
2 hours ago, Mr22putt said:

If you watched them take 1+ minutes each over their 2 ft putts....you'd be yelling at them too.😝

I yell at anyone that takes over 40 seconds for any shot, so yes. I don't actually yell. Just internally.

  • :titleist: 917 D2 9.5o EvenFlow blue shaft    :titleist: 917 F2 15o EvenFlow blue shaft    
  • :titleist: 818 H2 19o EvenFlow blue shaft 
  • :titleist: 712 AP2 4-PW
  • :vokey: 52/8o SM6 RAW    56/14o SM6 Chrome      60/4o SM6 Chrome
  • :ping: Anser Sigma G putter
  • :snell: MTB-Black Balls
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
19 minutes ago, Mr22putt said:

Got a 2 for 1 coupon for Semiahmoo a few years ago....so it was a no brainer to go play.

Yes, there is housing but IMO...it's not too encroaching.....still a fairly solid track.

Only played Loomis once....hazard filled....but that's ok...I like a challenge.

Homestead is ok

I like Semi. Homes don’t encroach that much. Loomis is more like the courses I grew up playing in the mid west. Haven’t played Homestead in a long time. Been meaning to go back sometime. Bellingham G&CC is nice. Few weird holes, but mostly a good layout and fun course. 
 

Back to topic, I do hate those that stand over the ball forever contemplating life before hitting the ball. Those people are rare. More commonly are those that try hard to play well but hit a lot of bad shots and try to restart after each one. 

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
On 10/20/2019 at 8:33 AM, Cartboy said:

Slow pace at our course is mostly because of playing too long of tees.

Slow play is caused by slow players regardless of tees.

On 11/4/2019 at 9:33 AM, ghalfaire said:

Having said that I do know of courses that insist on a pace of play that leads to a round of not more than 4 hours 30 minutes. 

I know it's been said already, but 4:30 is a death slog and shouldn't be a goal.

  • Upvote 1

Colin P.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I read many of the posts since my last one where I stated a couple of courses I know will remove slow foursomes if they don't keep up.  I don't really agree with that as a universal policy as it wouldn't work in many places. 

However what I believe is important to help control slow play is that:

1. the course have a policy on pace of play;

2. Player know what the policy is before they tee off;

3. The policy is consistently enforced, whatever it is.

Certainly the policy should be reasonable and consistent with the course difficulty and clientele.  So while there is no perfect solution I suspect, at least if all courses had a known policy on pace of play, everyone would know what is expected of them before they made the tee time.

 

Butch


Posted
On 11/6/2019 at 6:31 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

Cartboy... I've been reading your posts over the last couple of months.  You seem like you really know what you're doing.  And that you like your job. You have claimed ownership of your position.  Great attitude.  You will always do well.

Wow!  Thanks!

I've been on Internet forum for 20 years, and I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone actually compliment someone for their comments.

So, kudos to you.

😁


Posted

Speaking of 4:30 POP, if someone plays in five hours, that is fast, and if someone plays in three hours, that is slow.

When you have had to deal with 6 hour rounds, 4:30 seems like a reasonable compromise.

When I'm marshaling, it is not "recommended", it is the maximum allowed (in my  mind).

😁

In our case, there is some rhyme and reason to 4:30, but you'll have to follow me . . . . 

Each of our first four sets of four holes has a par 3, a Par 5, and two Par 4s.  Bobby Clampett consulted on the course design, and the Par 3 are paced at 12 minutes, the Par 4s at 15 minutes, and the Par 5s at 18 minutes.  Figure that out and you will see the each set of four holes in 1 hour.  17 & 18 are Par 4s, so that's another 1/2 hour, and, Wallah!, 4:30.

(PS:  I'm then only one left of the early employees who knows that.)

It's really easy to marshal when you get that four-holes-an-hour ingrained in your brain, but it's amazing how many brains are not ingrainable.

BTW, unless I'm really have a good round, if I'm stuck in a 4:30 round, I normally go in.  One day this year on the tenth tee I looked at the other guys and said, "Looks like rain.  Bye."  I'm sure it rained somewhere that day.

How many of you have marshaled a tough course on a busy day?


Posted (edited)

Playing with my Association a lot of weeks this year must have spoiled me. I wasn't willing to deal with the 2:30 it took to play nine holes behind two yahoos.

I actually talked to this pair on the putting green and they said they were in a "rush", so I joined up with this other pair right behind them. It actually wasn't that bad for the first few holes. Then, all of a sudden, they are in one of the drained-out water hazards looking for balls. All that effort must have exhausted them because that pair slowed up substantially after that. A foursome that had been in front of the pair opened up two, then three, then four holes on the pair of snails, but my threesome had nowhere to go. Without even looking over their shoulders at us on the tee, the pair clambered into yet another hazard to grab some balls.   

We finally putted out on nine and I headed straight to the car.

Damn shame since it was so nice out and the temperature just dropped 20 degrees this afternoon.

 

 

Edited by mcanadiens
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I find it incredible that 4h 30mins is considered acceptable for amateur golfers, and even worse recreational amateur golfers. In my view the pace of walking has only a minor impact on POP. The problem is a lack of education, etiquette and experience. If you are so slow as to take six hours to play 18, well I am not bothered as long as I get let through at the first opportunity. Failure to do so is poor etiquette, and plain rude. There should be no need to involve marshalls, just a timely offer to play through. Don't let me through and I'm putting the foot down and getting on the next tee before you have left and then I AM playing through...I have had to ask maybe 25 times(all retired guys who have no time pressure in their day) and have always been let through, even if there was some dark looks and occasionally a grumble.

  • Like 1

Stevie T

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Playing with my Association a lot of weeks this year must have spoiled me. I wasn't willing to deal with the 2:30 it took to play nine holes behind two yahoos.

I actually talked to this pair on the putting green and they said they were in a "rush", so I joined up with this other pair right behind them. It actually wasn't that bad for the first few holes. Then, all of a sudden, they are in one of the drained-out water hazards looking for balls. All that effort must have exhausted them because that pair slowed up substantially after that. A foursome that had been in front of the pair opened up two, then three, then four holes on the pair of snails, but my threesome had nowhere to go. Without even looking over their shoulders at us on the tee, the pair clambered into yet another hazard to grab some balls.   

We finally putted out on nine and I headed straight to the car.

Damn shame since it was so nice out and the temperature just dropped 20 degrees this afternoon.

 

 

"Pair of snails"... that was a great visual you provided... I can just picture them.  Too bad you didn't get to ask them what their "rush" was.  Possibly they were in a hurry to get in line at Walmart for the Black Friday sale.

"Without even looking over their shoulders at us on the tee, the pair clambered into yet another hazard to grab some balls."  The starter on the first tee should hand out rear view mirrors to everyone.  Seriously.

Edited by Double Mocha Man
Increased my verbosity
  • Thumbs Up 1

Posted
7 minutes ago, Beastie said:

I find it incredible that 4h 30mins is considered acceptable for amateur golfers, and even worse recreational amateur golfers. In my view the pace of walking has only a minor impact on POP. The problem is a lack of education, etiquette and experience. If you are so slow as to take six hours to play 18, well I am not bothered as long as I get let through at the first opportunity. Failure to do so is poor etiquette, and plain rude. There should be no need to involve marshalls, just a timely offer to play through. Don't let me through and I'm putting the foot down and getting on the next tee before you have left and then I AM playing through...I have had to ask maybe 25 times(all retired guys who have no time pressure in their day) and have always been let through, even if there was some dark looks and occasionally a grumble.

I have noticed that the slow group in front of me is always fast off the next tee just as I approach them to ask if I might play through.  Then they once again slow down to a slug's pace.  Not unlike those folks downtown who are super slow in the crosswalk to keep you waiting, but then speed up their pace as soon as they hit the curb.  Ugh.


Posted
8 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I have noticed that the slow group in front of me is always fast off the next tee just as I approach them to ask if I might play through.  Then they once again slow down to a slug's pace.  Not unlike those folks downtown who are super slow in the crosswalk to keep you waiting, but then speed up their pace as soon as they hit the curb.  Ugh.

A five iron across the knuckles is too good for em. 

Stevie T

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Damn shame since it was so nice out and the temperature just dropped 20 degrees this afternoon.

 

 

It was 75° the day before yesterday, and it's 10° now.

Why didn't you guys skip a hole and go around the ball-shaggers?

Edited by Cartboy

Posted
8 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

Why didn't you guys skip a hole and go around the ball-shaggers?

Not sure about the other two, but I'm not technically allowed to do that. Mind you, nobody would have caught me if I did. One of the many rules we sign off on with a City of Dayton, OH privilege pass includes not skipping holes. For better or worse, I tend to be rule follower.

I suppose given the layout of the course and my being on foot, it would have been a bit awkward anyway. We make the move, they speed up and we hit the next tee at the same time.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Beastie said:

If you are so slow as to take six hours to play 18, well I am not bothered as long as I get let through at the first opportunity. 

Not really a good option when the teesheet is packed.  They would have to let every group behind them play through.

That's why I ask how many of y'all have marshaled a tough course on a busy day . . . . you will hear every excuse in the book.  One of my favorites was a cigar-smoking, smart-talking older guy who had 3 young bucks in his group.  They had held up a 2-some all day, and at the third visit from me, on the 12th tee, he read me the riot-act with some choice, colorful words, saying it was the course's fault for allowing 2-somes to play.  He said he paid twice what they paid, so he was playing the way he wanted.

I went back and talked to the 2-some, a husband and wife, and told them they would have to go around that foursome.

Not long later I saw them at their car.  They were not upset, but they quit and came in because they did not want to upset the 4-some.

See, that's when  I'd like to be able to pull out my tablet and see if they wanted to re-play at a discount.

BTW, some 2-somes, often couples, won't book unless we block the other two slots at their tee time.

 

 

3 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Not sure about the other two, but I'm not technically allowed to do that. Mind you, nobody would have caught me if I did. One of the many rules we sign off on with a City of Dayton, OH privilege pass includes not skipping holes. For better or worse, I tend to be rule follower.

I suppose given the layout of the course and my being on foot, it would have been a bit awkward anyway. We make the move, they speed up and we hit the next tee at the same time.

Wow!  Never heard of that, no-hole-skipping rule.

& funny how some slow groups speed up when you play through.

Edited by Cartboy
s

Posted
13 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

& funny how some slow groups speed up when you play through.

Particularly when that slow group is a couple of serious A-holes.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2225 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.