Jump to content
Cartboy

Pace Problem

564 posts / 28679 viewsLast Reply

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

Not necessarily.  You forget the possibility (probability) that if, as an example, you get rid of the slow players and increase overall pace of play, you will gain the reputation as a fast course that will attract more fast players.  Swapping slower groups for faster groups also potentially allows for more density on the course and higher overall revenues, all without any increase in fees...

I think I lost a post here some where.

Not disagreeing with you @David in FL. However, if you remove the slower players from one course, they will move to another course. The slower player will cause their new course grief. The problem still exists. Just some where else.

The faster player still has the average speed player to deal with on their faster course. That average speed player is now the slower player. 

The possibility also might exist that if the course known for faster players, that there will be "slower" faster players. 

What if the faster known course gets way too many faster players (over crowded) playing at different speeds. 

None of the three groups will all play at the same speed with in their own respective groups. 

All this said, I do like the idea of a course promoting faster play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Register for free today and you won't see this ad spot again!

27 minutes ago, Patch said:

I think I lost a post here some where.

Not disagreeing with you @David in FL. However, if you remove the slower players from one course, they will move to another course. The slower player will cause their new course grief. The problem still exists. Just some where else.

The faster player still has the average speed player to deal with on their faster course. That average speed player is now the slower player. 

The possibility also might exist that if the course known for faster players, that there will be "slower" faster players. 

What if the faster known course gets way too many faster players (over crowded) playing at different speeds. 

None of the three groups will all play at the same speed with in their own respective groups. 

All this said, I do like the idea of a course promoting faster play.

But the overall average speed on the course increases.  That’s good, and faster players will likely gravitate to that course.  Just because they lost slow players, doesn’t necessarily mean they lose revenue.

And if there are courses that accept slow play, well, that’s just fine too.  They get what they accept, and faster players will learn to avoid them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

20 hours ago, phillyk said:

My course is pace rated to 4.5hrs, so when people come in to complain about slow pace, I check our GPS tracker.  If they are within 10min of the desired pace, I tell the group they are on pace.  More than 10min and I start messaging groups to keep up pace.  Having the pace ticker on the screens has helped immensely for some groups to speed up and others to not complain because they realize they are far ahead.

.....

I feel like the more I make everyone aware of the expectation, the less complaining I get.  Our pace ticker does that, some course have multiple clocks throughout the course, and some have an active marshal all day.  

I've seen the GPS units used exactly this way, and I like it.  The one thing I'd suggest for all courses is that the expectation be set aggressively.  When I was at Talamore (where a few of us have played) over Labor Day weekend, their new GPS units were set to "time par" of about 4:10, which is fairly quick for a resort setting.  In talking to the head pro, he said that the addition of the GPS units has sped up play by 15 to 20 minutes, and the time par notifications was a big part of that improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

My brother and I played at Foothills in CO for the first time on Wednesday and it took just over 5 hours to play the round because they let the group in front of us go out with a group of 5.  No ranger, anywhere on the course either.  If you are going to play with 5, you should be cognitive of your pace, not them they took their sweet time every hole.

It was a total joke, you can't get into any type of rhythm when it is 5 to 10 minutes between every shot.  Seriously doubt I will ever play there again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Inferno2ss said:

My brother and I played at Foothills in CO for the first time on Wednesday and it took just over 5 hours to play the round because they let the group in front of us go out with a group of 5.  No ranger, anywhere on the course either.  If you are going to play with 5, you should be cognitive of your pace, not them they took their sweet time every hole.

It was a total joke, you can't get into any type of rhythm when it is 5 to 10 minutes between every shot.  Seriously doubt I will ever play there again.

You should send your post to the ownership of the golf course.  Send an email to the head person at Foothills Park & Recreation District and cc the mayor.

Edited by Double Mocha Man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

You should send your post to the ownership of the golf course.

Whenever I hear of 5-somes I think of the guys that play first thing in the AM at North Bellingham.  Not a soul can catch those guys.  Their key is that they don't really putt. They pick up and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

6 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Whenever I hear of 5-somes I think of the guys that play first thing in the AM at North Bellingham.  Not a soul can catch those guys.  Their key is that they don't really putt. They pick up and move on.

I have played in a fivesome there with Nathan's blessing.  But we were fast... Matt Cowell, Shane Clarke, Sam Reier... you probably know them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Patch said:

I think I lost a post here some where.

Not disagreeing with you @David in FL. However, if you remove the slower players from one course, they will move to another course. The slower player will cause their new course grief. The problem still exists. Just some where else.

The faster player still has the average speed player to deal with on their faster course. That average speed player is now the slower player. 

The possibility also might exist that if the course known for faster players, that there will be "slower" faster players. 

What if the faster known course gets way too many faster players (over crowded) playing at different speeds. 

None of the three groups will all play at the same speed with in their own respective groups. 

All this said, I do like the idea of a course promoting faster play.

Faster players, like myself, @billchao and @David in FL don’t ridicule players just because they’re slower. I think you’re assuming fast players expect everyone to be as fast or faster. We’re talking about an acceptable pace. I’m fine if I’m on pace for a 4:15 round. I’m not gonna get worked up if a group in front of me is on an acceptable pace for that day as long as it’s reasonable for the current conditions. I don’t think most fast players are basing acceptable pace on whether or not someone is as fast as they are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

On 11/4/2013 at 9:36 AM, Robster 7 said:

The worst thing they ever did was make golf 18 holes. It should've been 12 holes. That way the divorce courts would've been a lot less busy the last 30 yrs or so!;-)

Yeah I think the sport would have been better as well with 12 being common.

Saskatoon has a 12 hole course that is pretty popular. The women I've played with there from work lived 6 holes more than 9 and anecdotally people find 12 holes works better than 18 or 9.

If I were ever to do a course that still wanted to be rated by the USGA for 18 holes I'd make the 12 hole loop come back to the clubhouse. Keller GC in St Paul's has you play 11 holes before the clubhouse which I liked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, cutchemist42 said:

Yeah I think the sport would have been better as well with 12 being common.

Saskatoon has a 12 hole course that is pretty popular. The women I've played with there from work lived 6 holes more than 9 and anecdotally people find 12 holes works better than 18 or 9.

If I were ever to do a course that still wanted to be rated by the USGA for 18 holes I'd make the 12 hole loop come back to the clubhouse. Keller GC in St Paul's has you play 11 holes before the clubhouse which I liked.

Best part about 12 holes is you get to hit the local watering hole after your round and respond to those nosy patrons that you shot a 68.  No need to tell them you were 20 over par... 😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I play nine or twelve instead of eighteen frequently. I can’t believe that 41/2 hours is considered a good pace on almost any course. I’ve played Carnoustie in a competition, in a gale in 3 balls and got round in 3.45hrs. 

pieters.jpg

Thomas Pieters Plays Italian Open Final Round In Under Two Hours - The Belgian got round in under...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 minutes ago, Beastie said:

I play nine or twelve instead of eighteen frequently. I can’t believe that 41/2 hours is considered a good pace on almost any course. I’ve played Carnoustie in a competition, in a gale in 3 balls and got round in 3.45hrs. 

pieters.jpg

Thomas Pieters Plays Italian Open Final Round In Under Two Hours - The Belgian got round in under...

 

This is extreme, but I like it. I walk a short course near me in under 2 hours if it is empty. It is only 5000 yards, and the greens are close to the tees in between most holes, but with a pushcart and about 10-15 seconds of set up per shot, I don't even have to run. These guys that pace out every shot or have a 1+ minute pre-shot routine are a disgrace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

4 hours ago, Beastie said:

I play nine or twelve instead of eighteen frequently. I can’t believe that 41/2 hours is considered a good pace on almost any course. I’ve played Carnoustie in a competition, in a gale in 3 balls and got round in 3.45hrs. 

pieters.jpg

Thomas Pieters Plays Italian Open Final Round In Under Two Hours - The Belgian got round in under...

 

4.5 hours being considered fine is just an American view of the game  I think most Americans would find themselves unwelcome if they didnt adjust to the pace in their weekly rounds elsewhere in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

19 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

4.5 hours being considered fine is just an American view of the game  I think most Americans would find themselves unwelcome if they didnt adjust to the pace in their weekly rounds elsewhere in the world.

What country do you think has the fastest pace of play? Asking for when I retire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Faster players, like myself, @billchao and @David in FL don’t ridicule players just because they’re slower. I think you’re assuming fast players expect everyone to be as fast or faster. We’re talking about an acceptable pace. I’m fine if I’m on pace for a 4:15 round. I’m not gonna get worked up if a group in front of me is on an acceptable pace for that day as long as it’s reasonable for the current conditions. I don’t think most fast players are basing acceptable pace on whether or not someone is as fast as they are. 

I am not assuming anything. I am just offering up different scenarios on why the problem of slow play will never be solved. Not unless the ruling bodies completely change the game from what we now have. 

I would ask,  if as you say "don't think most fast players are basing acceptable pace on whether, or not someone is as fast as they are", where does the topic of slow play originate? 

I agree that faster players should not ridicule slower players. I have stated before that slow play is not a concern of mine. It is what it is, for that round. I just play my shots, when it's my turn, and move on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

47 minutes ago, Patch said:

where does the topic of slow play originate? 

Probably an interesting history for sure. But I think sometime, somewhere an ‘average time’ was being noticed as to what an 18 hole round took with a foursome. Maybe in the very early days it was just ire towards slower players than the complaining group, but nowadays I’m saying slow play can be recognized. Poor cart strategy, not preparing for your shot while waiting, spending more than three minutes ball hunting, etc. The origin of slow play? That is interesting @Patch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, Patch said:

I would ask,  if as you say "don't think most fast players are basing acceptable pace on whether, or not someone is as fast as they are", where does the topic of slow play originate? 

I agree that faster players should not ridicule slower players. I have stated before that slow play is not a concern of mine.

 

I don’t care if you’re faster than me or not, but there is a level of what is “acceptable”.  Anything over 3:45, unless someone is holding you up, is unacceptable.
 

If slow players are not held accountable, they will never change…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

What country do you think has the fastest pace of play? Asking for when I retire

I've heard Australia and the UK and that they arent afraid to call out someone for ruining a game by being slow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...