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Your experience with lessons.


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I don't recommend any pro that doesn't use swing analysis video to make or not to make adjustments to swing.

Very hard for the eye to capture the intricate motions at such high speeds.  Maybe back in the day that was easy to do, but now a days I'm sure teachers are very hard to find!

I went to a teacher that saw that I hit the ball nice sometimes and basically told me not to change anything, when I know and can see from high speed camera video that there are things I need to work on.

I think teachers are better if you go to them and say, listen I know that I am coming down and across with my driver and slicing.. how do I eliminate that and what are some exercises that you suggest.

I think video is a great tool when applied correctly but it should be one of many tools an instructor uses.  There were a lot of good golfers before video analysis existed, so it's important to keep it all in perspective.

In my opinion (that of a 19 handicap) video is a great tool for pointing out swing flaws in areas where "feel isn't real".  I may feel like my heads not moving, but video shows otherwise, etc.  Where I see video being misapplied is in where an instructor wants to get your video to fit the exact swing and positions of his "model" pro.

Everyone has a different swing and I buy into 5SK 100% but that doesn't mean when you overlay my swing over Phil's I expect to be perfectly in sync.     I want an instructor that takes into account my physical ability, time to dedicate to golf and practice and using video and other tools works on the key areas that will make me a better golfer.   I'm not a pro, I don't expect to swing like a pro or look like one in video, but I do expect to be a consistent ball striker.

Joe Paradiso

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I've had 2 instructors in my life.  The first one I saw right after I started taking golf seriously and decided to try to learn to play better.  I bought a 10 lesson package.  After 10 lessons, I made almost no improvement and I was really discouraged.  The golf swing was more confusing than ever to me and I felt like I probably just didn't have any "golf ability".  He was a well regarded teacher (particularly by himself) and I think he probably is an ok teacher.  For whatever reason, though, his method didn't work on me at all.

2 years later my wife enrolled us in some group lessons.  This teacher had a completely different approach.  I know it's not very fashionable to go on about positions, etc, these days but that's how he teaches.  He wanted me to "force" myself into certain positions.  This actually worked for me and I started to improve immediately.  I didn't really want to spend a whole bunch of money on lessons and this guy is expensive . . so I saw him about 4 times over the next year and kept improving steadily.  I went from shooting 110+ to breaking 90.  My driver distance increased from around 175 yards to 250 (275 on a good whack).  My approach shots started to occassionally stick on the greens and he gave me a chipping lesson once that probably took more strokes off my card than anything.

Was the second guy a better teacher or just better for me?  I don't know but what I learned is that it's really important to find a pro you can learn from and not waste time and money with one who is not helping you make noticable improvements rather quickly.

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Never had a lesson, 3.5 handicap. My grandfather told me two things. Alignment; shoulders, hips and knees should be on the same plane. Grip; keep it soft, V of the thumbs should aim at your shoulders Worked for me and still works today.
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I have a lot of experience with instruction having taken lessons with many different instructors. I didn't make appreciable gains until I got better at picking out good teachers and using video effectively plus figuring stuff out in front of a mirror (actually two.) YouTube also helped in that I looked at all different kinds of effective swings and started figuring out the what they have in common. Basically, I didn't do enough on my own, ymmv.

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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It's definitely important to find someone who you trust and that is usually by recommendation. I occasionally get calls from people who are just taking up the game and because they know I'm a decent standard, they want me to give them advice and take them out. I give advice on equipment but always point them in the direction of a PGA pro for lessons because its much better to learn correctly from day 1 rather than learning a whole load of bad habits and having that reconstructed later on. I've only had three lessons, one pro told me I needed to turn my hips more which totally ruined my swing for a while. The next was very good but after one lesson he emigrated to Portugal and the last one was also very good but that was purely for Trackman assessment because I wanted to see my impact conditions. I feel its good to have someone run their eye over you occasionally but the best instructors will work with what you have and not try to get you swinging like their ideal player.
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I've had a few instructors and I can't say I've had overwhelming faith in any of them. However, they knew (know) way more than I did and were quickly able to point out things I was way off on.  Totally invaluable.  I would have never come across some of the faults.  I would never have been able to figure it out on my own.

Also about lessons, they would like to have you come in once every couple of weeks.  But I find it takes me months to ingrain whatever they could throw at me in a 30 minute lesson.

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I took a few lessons locally, and had posted about them here. The first was really great - good advice on grip and stance, and starting the backswing to immediately put me in a better downswing position. My stance was far too hunched over with my weight on my heels.

But when I went back for a few more lessons, I explained that not only was I uncomfortable, I was actually experiencing some lower back pain with the stance they wanted me in. I got a "oh ho ho golf isn't supposed to be comfortable, if you're comfortable in your stance then you're not doing it right!" response... and that was my last lesson. Full credit to Erik and a few others here who saw that happening after I posted about my first lesson.

There are a decent amount of PGA pros in my area working out of some courses, however my problem is scheduling. So I'll be looking to take some online lessons once early spring hits.

My current teacher has informed me that I should be completely comfortable in my address and swing and that power should be effortless if your fundamentals are good. This is absolutely true. I don't swing hard at all anymore and I'm creating much, much more power. You can see the torque in my swing now when you replay the DVD in slow motion. When I hit the ball, I'm getting much more yardage as well. My irons are crisp and have a nice ball flight. This isn't every shot, of course I still have my mishits, but when replaying the DVD, my mishits are always due to something that I'm doing wrong or not doing at all. This gentleman thrives on seeing students enjoy themselves and improving. He sees the potential that I have so he even offered 3 more lessons and practice sessions for only $90.

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The general problem I see with lessons is most people go into lessons not knowing how to tell the difference between good instruction and bad instruction.  Most newbies are clueless to what makes a good golf swing, they may have read a few golf magazines, maybe a book but overall they aren't in a position to challenge a "pro" on what they tell them to do.

We go to our local course or range meet the person that's called the "pro" and sign up for lessons.  We listen and follow their instructions and when things don't seem to improve we assume it's just our fault.  It's like a bad doctor or lawyer, you usually don't figure out they are incompetent until it's too late.  After we've spent a significant amount of money we get frustrated that the results weren't better.  Some give up, others take a break, some try to figure it out and others like me, join another range and find a new pro.

Very good point. I have always taken positives from any of the instructors I have worked with.  Knowing what I know now, I don't agree with some of the instructors but that doesn't mean I didn't take "something" positive from each lesson.  Every teacher I have worked with finds many of the same mistakes as the other teachers have found.  But there is usually a big difference in their approach to fixing those mistakes.  To me, it's that approach to fixing the issue that really has to "fit the individual student's eye" that makes the difference in getting better quickly or not.  Obviously, that is a trial and error process.

Another thing I have seen from some friends, is the feeling that they should be fixed with one lesson.  They go in, pay for a lesson, and come out and make a lot of the same mistakes (even without much practice time on the drills) as before.  They get frustrated and think the teacher doesn't have a clue or that they just aren't good enough to make the changes.  In reality, they just don't understand that it takes time and sometimes gets worse before it gets better (I found this one out myself).

Bryan A
"Your desire to change must be greater than your desire to stay the same"

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Never had a lesson, 3.5 handicap. My grandfather told me two things. Alignment; shoulders, hips and knees should be on the same plane. Grip; keep it soft, V of the thumbs should aim at your shoulders Worked for me and still works today.

Well, when you put it that way... The only problem is that most of us don't have the ability to do that consistently. Some of us do, some don't. You're lucky. For those that don't, good lessons are in order.:-P

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Most lessons I have had have been positive and the best ones have been when the instructor only tries to get me to do only 1 or 2 things, I just hate being overwhelmed and I know I already have a decent enough swing that I don't need complete overhaul.

I've seen instructors that totally dominate the session with non-stop talking, dishing out 20 different things for the student to do.   I have seen another instructor who ended up talking about his golf accomplishments  more than teach.   Who's training the instructors on how to teach? :-O

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

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I've seen instructors that totally dominate the session with non-stop talking, dishing out 20 different things for the student to do.   I have seen another instructor who ended up talking about his golf accomplishments  more than teach.   Who's training the instructors on how to teach?

Some people can teach and some people can't...And how good a player they are/were has very little to do with it.

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ho's training the instructors on how to teach?  :-O

Very few people. That's why there are a lot of crappy instructors.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Very few people. That's why there are a lot of crappy instructors.

I completely agree.  Add to that the fact that even though the PGA has an instructor training program, I'm not at all sure they are really teaching them HOW to teach so much as a checklist of things that they believe should be taught.

I have generally had good experiences with golf lessons, but as many have already said, you need to find someone you "connect" with.  Another important point is to make sure you and the instructor are both on the same page with regard to what you want to accomplish with the lessons.  (I think a good instructor should take care of this bit, but as the student you need to make sure it happens.)

There are at least two ways to approach golf lessons.  You can go to an instructor and say, "I am hooking my driver real bad and need help."  Or you can go to an instructor and say, "I want help with improving my game."  If you take the first approach, the instructor is likely to try to apply some sort of Band-Aid to your setup or swing to help with the hook.  This may, or may not help with any other aspect of your game, and may even mess up your mid irons or something if randomly applied.

If you take the second approach you will probably need to plan on taking a number of lessons because so many aspects of the golf swing build on, and are interconnected with one another.  Making a change in you grip or backswing will affect other parts of the swing, but until you master the first bit they can't hardly help with the other parts without inundating you with so much info you get nothing out of it (as mentioned above).  In this case it may be a while before your wild driver hook is brought under control, but in the long run you will likely be a better all around golfer.

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I think video is a great tool when applied correctly but it should be one of many tools an instructor uses.  There were a lot of good golfers before video analysis existed, so it's important to keep it all in perspective.

In my opinion (that of a 19 handicap) video is a great tool for pointing out swing flaws in areas where "feel isn't real".  I may feel like my heads not moving, but video shows otherwise, etc.  Where I see video being misapplied is in where an instructor wants to get your video to fit the exact swing and positions of his "model" pro.

Everyone has a different swing and I buy into 5SK 100% but that doesn't mean when you overlay my swing over Phil's I expect to be perfectly in sync.     I want an instructor that takes into account my physical ability, time to dedicate to golf and practice and using video and other tools works on the key areas that will make me a better golfer.   I'm not a pro, I don't expect to swing like a pro or look like one in video, but I do expect to be a consistent ball striker.

Agree, the point of video is not to mimic positions of a tour pro but to see how the feels are translating into the swing.  For example, a player that gets the club too far in on the takeaway might have to feel like he's hinging the club up faster and it feels ridiculous.  Then they look on the camera and it looks great.

Using tour players as examples for certain pieces can helpful, gives players an idea of where they need to be, basic stuff like weight forward, flat left wrist etc.  Some players also like the validation but trying to copy a player's swing isn't going to end well.

Mike McLoughlin

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I feel like lessons are helpful, although I have seen minimal benefit from the lessons I've been taking off and on since last fall, but I think that has a lot to do with age and some physical issues that hamper the swing.  It is absolutely helpful to get the static elements like posture, alignment, ball position and grip checked out.  But there are a lot of moving pieces in the swing and the pro can't swing for you.  It is very frustrating, and very hard work, to try and make the swing changes that are recommended.  I have to say I can understand why people don't want to go through the process.  It's not really a lot of fun.  But I always seem to shoot better after a lesson if I take some time to practice what has been advised.  It would be nice if the improvements were a bit more permanent.

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I've only gone to 6 lessons over the last 2 years with my guy, but I immediately liked his engagement style which was low key and kinda Zen like. I went in thinking that I had a good basics and that I needed someone to look at the swing and tweak it. Oh boy, was I wrong. I was 42 and only golfing a couple times a year, pretty athletic and I was essentially a slap hitter. My swing was pretty much over when I hit the ball. So much of this game is mental and dissociating hitting a ball and making a swing took me quite a while, but that I really don't have that "hit the ball" thought going in my head I am able to derive all the power and accuracy that I can get. I remember my "a ha" moment when he explained how to generate lag and what that release in my wrists really was compared to what I thought it was and what I was doing. I've learned that you can't "do" that release, it just happens. I haven't videoed in a while, I will get some this weekend and put it up here (which is something that I've avoided).

Next step is a playing lesson to see where I'm leaving strokes on the course. Most likely from missing greens, I have a tendency to stop driving with my legs which causes a pull. For me, the lessons have been worth every dollar.

Why do they call golf "golf"?  Because all the other four letter words were taken.

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Hey guys, just thought I'd put up a thread dedicated to everyone's experience with lessons whether good or bad. I'll start with mine. First, I'll give you a little of my golfing background. I've been hacking away for about 8 years, playing about 3 to 5 times a year, total. This past year was my first year where I decided to start taking the game seriously because of my passion for it and my willing to learn. I got a membership at a local course and took a lesson from a local pro. It helped quite a bit with my distance. I started playing about 3 to 4 times a week and after about 2 months, I was shooting in the mid to low 80's at my course. I found (as well as other people) that I had some talent and some potential. I kept this rate of play going for most of the summer and was consistently shooting in the low 80's. I love this game and consider myself a fanatic. At the end of July I got a new job and I didn't play a single round for about a month. It was killing me,  then I finally had a chance to play again. This time out, I didn't even break 100. I played horribly. I was skulling the ball, hooking, slicing, hitting it fat, thin you name it. This kind of play kept on going for every round up until recently. I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong and I was at the end of my rope. I decided to go for some lessons from a CPGA certified professional. He has a fully equipped studio in a detached garage at his house with the V1 system, cameras set up at 3 different angles, optishot, etc., just a great set-up. He told me that I had a really nice swing but that there were some issues. One major one was that I was casting the club, not creating any lag. He taught me how to create lag, how to swing wide and then basically drop my right elbow tight into my side, creating lag. He taught me about grip, stance, posture, ball position and it has been an amazing transformation. He gives you a DVD of the lesson to take home and study and to prepare for the next lesson. Just by teaching me these simple fundamentals, my swing looks completely different (on the downswing). I didn't realize that an early hinge at the wrists can kill your power. Swinging wide and then dropping your right elbow to create that lag has improved my swing tenfold. I went from having no lag to creating too much lag. My instructor taught me to find a happy medium because the lag I was generating was Daly-esque and could potentially create problems. A happy medium was found and my swing looks incredible and I'm hitting the ball pure. One thing that he noticed that I had the gift of doing was being able to have my club be in the exact same position at impact as it was at address. I mean EXACT. He super-imposed the 2 positions on the DVD and showed me. I'm still taking lessons and it has been the best money I have ever spent when it comes to this game. I highly recommend lessons from a teaching professional. I have all of this on DVD if anyone is interested to see how much lessons from a pro can improve your swing.

Paragraphs please.

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A couple of things about why people have such a negative view of lessons and justifiably so. Oversight and lack of accountability.

The USGA and PGA try, but they have other interests at heart. If an instructor is no good, there's no way to tell objectively for the less informed. Golf has a steep learning curve, so you get a lot of one and done or a couple of lessons and done. Even if you had a perfect system of accountability, say a website that truth serums a review from every possible instructor's students, it's still subjective a bit because you also need to match personality and cultural traits when working with a teacher.

Plus golf is a discretionary income expense, so it's not life or death, so less accountability. And even with regulation and oversight, look at other forms of education that are performing subpar that are provided vast resources.

But I'm not going to go completely debbie downer on you. The internet has provided some oversight and accountability in the form of cheap and fast communication plus video, plus new tech like radar and high speed video.

And don't even get me started on the mythical old wizened pro who sits down and sees a couple of swings without high speed video and has one fix that will make you scratch. :roll:

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Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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