2014 WGC-Cadillac Championship at Doral Discussion Thread

[colin007]

I've been wondering the same thing. I think the wind and greens probably play a bigger factor than the new layout. If the wind dies down tomorrow, will see what's what. Rory challenging for a share of the lead. Edit* Nope. That was a BRUTAL day of golf. Anyone know what the final count was on water balls over those first two rounds?

103, I believe.

[Ernest Jones]

103, I believe.

That must be just today's round, I saw a graphic around 4:30 that already had it at 122 balls.

[jas72]

Regarding the drop Dustin Johnson made, even if they declared it as part of the path, aren't you supposed to take relief from the NEAREST point of relief?  That would have put him to the left of the path, not all the way to the right where he eventually dropped.   Sometimes your ball is on the cart path, and if your nearest point is closer to the bushes, you don't get to take the ball and drop it on the other side away from the bushes.

[ChrisP]

I've been wondering the same thing. I think the wind and greens probably play a bigger factor than the new layout. If the wind dies down tomorrow, will see what's what.

Rory challenging for a share of the lead.

Edit* Nope.

That was a BRUTAL day of golf. Anyone know what the final count was on water balls over those first two rounds?

The wind was definitely a factor, but it's blown hard like this at Doral before and players have gone low. Florida gets a lot of wind in March. To me, the greens are the biggest factor. They looked like US Open greens these past two days, and Doral in the past is not known for fast greens. I think you'll see some 67s and 68s with the wind dying down, but I wouldn't look for anything much lower than that over the weekend.

[RandallT]

Bubba's caddy says he hit a PW 205 yards, then hit a 3-iron 175 yards.

[Dormie1360]

Regarding the drop Dustin Johnson made, even if they declared it as part of the path, aren't you supposed to take relief from the NEAREST point of relief?  That would have put him to the left of the path, not all the way to the right where he eventually dropped.   Sometimes your ball is on the cart path, and if your nearest point is closer to the bushes, you don't get to take the ball and drop it on the other side away from the bushes.

I believe there was a pump house to the left of the cart path, at least that's what I heard on TV.  The pump station was another obstruction.  I'm guessing they had a local rule tying the two conditions together, (pump house and cart path).

The above, I believe is analogous to the following decision.

33-8/25

Local Rule for Ground Under Repair Adjacent to Artificially-Surfaced Cart Path

Q. When ground under repair is adjacent to an artificially-surfaced cart path (an obstruction), sometimes a player, after obtaining relief from one condition, is interfered with by the other condition. Thus, another drop under another Rule results. This is cumbersome and could lead to complications. Would it be proper to eliminate the problem by means of a Local Rule under which ground under repair adjacent to an artificially-surfaced cart path would have the same status as the cart path?

A. Yes. If white lines are used to define ground under repair, a Local Rule is suggested as follows:

"White-lined areas tying into artificially-surfaced roads or paths are declared to have the same status as the roads or paths, i.e., they are obstructions, not ground under repair. Relief, without penalty, is provided under Rule 24-2b(i) ."

[joekelly]

News on Doral.

Quote:

Love him or hate.  Trump is a moneyed force in golf.

Doral, Fla.

One doesn't so much interview Donald Trump as hop aboard his train of thought. When I met him Wednesday for a personal tour of his refurbished Trump National Doral resort and its famed Blue Monster course here, we happened to be near some new handrails.

He thumped one. "Look at this railing. You just don't see railing like that," he said, dressed in all-white golf attire and a Trump International golf cap. "That's the real deal. Solid brass. The guy who made these—truly an artist. I spent $2 million just on railings."

The towering, triple-tier fountain near the first tee also seems to be of top quality ("From Florence," Trump said). So are the spacious new outdoor dining terraces on the second floor of the main clubhouse ("They can hold a live load of 2,500 people"), and the four, 70-room lodges, out of 10 at the resort, that have thus far been rebuilt to a high luxury standard and themed around great players. "We gutted them down to the steel," Trump said at the Gary Player villa. "Have you ever seen an elevator like that? It sets a standard."

Trump will always be Trump, of course, but there is actually a new seriousness to his presence in the golf world. His portfolio includes 13 private clubs and resorts in North America and three overseas, including Trump International in Scotland and his latest acquisition announced last month, Doonbeg in Ireland. This weekend, he has a monopoly of sorts: The Puerto Rico Open, which is the PGA Tour tournament for those not invited to the WGC-Cadillac Championship here, is being played at another Trump venue.

Anyone who chortled at his longtime ambition to host a major tournament might want to temper the skepticism. He is hiring golf's top architects and building or acquiring more courses than anyone else. Trump wasted no time on his Doral work. When the final putt dropped at last year's event, bulldozers were poised near the fairways so work could begin.

With flagstick-bending winds on Friday afternoon, the new, beefed-up Monster was acting up. Tiger Woods won last year with a 19-under-par total, and more than half the field finished under par. After the second round this year, four players were tied for the lead at one under: Dustin Johnson, Matt Kuchar, Hunter Mahan and Patrick Reed. Short pitch shots were blowing off the firm, new greens into greenside ponds, more of which are in play with the new design. The elite 68-player field hit more than 100 balls into the water in the second round.

"I think it could be the most difficult course on Tour if they wanted to set it up that way," Trump said. But the PGA Tour was deeply involved in the overhaul, too, and their watchword is "fair."

"What players want is a course that is right in front of them. They want to be able to see from the tee what kind of shots they need to hit and to be fairly rewarded for hitting good shots," said Stephen Wenzloff, the Tour's chief course design executive. Tour pros practice obsessively to hit precision shots—that is how they earn their living—and more than anything they dislike surprises, quirky holes and capricious bounces.

The architect Trump hired for the job, Gil Hanse, is a hands-on, tractor-driving minimalist known for his thoughtful, strategic designs at TPC Boston, site of the Deutsche Bank Championship, and Castle Stuart, site of the past three Scottish Opens. He is also building the new 2016 Olympic Games course in Rio de Janeiro.

The challenges of Hanse's revise at Doral may be plain to see from the tee, but they're tricky. "We were interested to see if angles could become relevant again," he said. Working with ideas that were drawn up but never executed by the course's original designer, Dick Wilson, Hanse built many of the new fairway bunkers on diagonals that require players to shape their tee shots to achieve maximum distance.

"It's a lost art, I think, but we're trying to see if we can challenge today's professional to get to certain sides or places in the fairways with the best angles into the greens," Hanse said. "If they don't shape their shots, they may have to use an iron or a three-wood off the tee to stay short." Hanse and his partner, Jim Wagner, elevated parts of many fairways by several feet, tilting a few, to give new looks to some holes and add wrinkles to the tactics players have to devise on each tee.

The greens are new, rebuilt from scratch with more undulation. Most are a bit larger, but many, such as the eighth, have small greens within the greens, set off by ridges, that provide smaller target areas for approach shots, depending on the pin location. The greens are firmer this year than they will ever be again, due to the lack of buildup from thatch and other materials that will soften them.

Through two rounds, that firmness was giving fits to the pros, accustomed as they are to stopping balls like fighter jets on a carrier deck. And veterans suddenly have no experience of how the putts break.

The Blue Monster's routing is essentially the same. The famously difficult 18th hole is almost entirely unchanged. But the formerly nondescript par-three 15th hole now has a nail-biting peninsula green (Hanse talked Trump out of turning it into an island green) and the short par-four 16th, formerly drivable over trees, now requires a scary carry over water.

My tour with Trump ended a few minutes before Woods, who would finish Friday at five over par, showed up at his namesake villa for the formal ribbon cutting. "Do you know who else Tiger would do something like this for?" Trump asked. He held up his thumb and forefinger to form a zero.

— Email John Paul Newport at golfjournal@wsj.com

From the WSJ, 7 March 2014

[jas72]

I believe there was a pump house to the left of the cart path, at least that's what I heard on TV.  The pump station was another obstruction.  I'm guessing they had a local rule tying the two conditions together, (pump house and cart path).

The above, I believe is analogous to the following decision.

33-8/25

Local Rule for Ground Under Repair Adjacent to Artificially-Surfaced Cart Path

Q. When ground under repair is adjacent to an artificially-surfaced cart path (an obstruction), sometimes a player, after obtaining relief from one condition, is interfered with by the other condition. Thus, another drop under another Rule results. This is cumbersome and could lead to complications. Would it be proper to eliminate the problem by means of a Local Rule under which ground under repair adjacent to an artificially-surfaced cart path would have the same status as the cart path?

A. Yes. If white lines are used to define ground under repair, a Local Rule is suggested as follows:

"White-lined areas tying into artificially-surfaced roads or paths are declared to have the same status as the roads or paths, i.e., they are obstructions, not ground under repair. Relief, without penalty, is provided under Rule 24-2b(i)."

That is close, but I didn't hear them mention anything about ground under repair.  Was it explained fully during the telecast?  There was a rules official right there, so I'm trusting that the ruling was correct.  In any event, good deal for DJ.

[mvmac]

[Hammer 4]

Does anyone know if the forcast is for more 30mph winds tomorrow..?

Go Hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Yukari]

Does anyone know if the forcast is for more 30mph winds tomorrow..?

Go Hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.weather.com/weather/weekend/Miami+FL+USFL0316:1:US

Looks like just a breeze on the weekend.

[Hammer 4]

http://www.weather.com/weather/weekend/Miami+FL+USFL0316:1:US

Looks like just a breeze on the weekend.

Nice, should see some way better scoring tomorrow. Thanks for the link..

[Crim]

Anyone know or can find the record of most balls in the water in a tournament?

[Dormie1360]

That is close, but I didn't hear them mention anything about ground under repair.  Was it explained fully during the telecast?  There was a rules official right there, so I'm trusting that the ruling was correct.  In any event, good deal for DJ.

All I heard was there was a pump station to the left of the cart path, not sure if they said anything else.

It wasn't GUR but the idea is the same.   The point is there were two conditions close together, where relief would be granted from either. Normally you would find the NPR (Nearest Point of Relief) for one condition and drop the ball. In this case when you dropped from the cart path the NPR would put you by the pump station..  Now you have a new situation, interference from the pump station.  Next you find your NPR from he pump station.  That happens to be back on the cart path.  So you drop back on the cart path.  Now you're back where you started.  If this happens the rules say you can now find the NPR that provide relief from both conditions.   In this case that would be right of the cart path.

To avoid going though all this, I'm guessing a local rule was made tying the cart path and pump station together, allowing the player to drop only once, where there would be relief from both conditions.

I can't say for sure this is what was going on with Johnson, but that's how the rule works if you have interference from two separate conditions close together where the relief from one puts you on the other condition, and relief from the other, puts you back on the first condition.

As you said, he got a ruling from and official, so I'm pretty sure the drop was correct.

[jas72]

All I heard was there was a pump station to the left of the cart path, not sure if they said anything else.

It wasn't GUR but the idea is the same.   The point is there were two conditions close together, where relief would be granted from either. Normally you would find the NPR (Nearest Point of Relief) for one condition and drop the ball. In this case when you dropped from the cart path the NPR would put you by the pump station..  Now you have a new situation, interference from the pump station.  Next you find your NPR from he pump station.  That happens to be back on the cart path.  So you drop back on the cart path.  Now you're back where you started.  If this happens the rules say you can now find the NPR that provide relief from both conditions.   In this case that would be right of the cart path.

To avoid going though all this, I'm guessing a local rule was made tying the cart path and pump station together, allowing the player to drop only once, where there would be relief from both conditions.

I can't say for sure this is what was going on with Johnson, but that's how the rule works if you have interference from two separate conditions close together where the relief from one puts you on the other condition, and relief from the other, puts you back on the first condition.

As you said, he got a ruling from and official, so I'm pretty sure the drop was correct.

Thanks.  I did hear someone mention a local rule, so it must have been an unusual situation that was anticipated and addressed.

[saturday]

I think they made this course play around par so they could get a bid in on hosting a Major. This thing is reminding me of last year's US Open.

That's exactly what they're trying to do.... There's no doubt in my mind trump wants to host a major.

[Zwick]

How much of this was the wind, how much was due to the actual layout, and how much is due to the apparently rock hard greens?

I think we have to wait until next year to really judge the course. Probably the greens will soften up just a bit and the staff will know better how to set up the course in various conditions. Until now I think it was borderline unfair: Some really good shots got penalized while some mediocre shots ended up in perfect positions (for example Stenson at the 9th). Especially I think they should let the grass on the banks grow a little bit; there are to many shots that go right down the fairway and because of bad bounces trickle into the water (see Woods at the 8th).

And I don't really know who Trump is (other than some news on his role in the last presidential campaign), but in the interview posted by joekelly above, he really comes off as a weird rich guy.

[Hammer 4]

Trump is in it for the $$$, and yes, he's weird. If you look on the trump golf course website for Los Angeles, it says that the course was a Pete Dye design, and Greatly enhanced by donald trump..wtf is that..? Also the $$$ he charges for everything at that course is beyond ridiculous. IMHO he's not good for the game of golf.