Tiger Woods Master Catch-All Discussion

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, Pendragon said:

Hey, I'm no fan of Hank Haney, but the guy must have something on the ball for Tiger Woods to have kept him as his swing coach for 6 years. Once he and TW went their separate ways, Haney didn't all of a sudden forget everything he knew. Is that your contention? 

My understanding is Tiger had certain ideas about what he wanted to do with his swing and Harmon was against making any changes so Tiger switched to Haney because his friend Mark O'Meara recommended Haney.  How much input Haney actually had on Tigers swing is unknown.  

[Pendragon]

4 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

I've heard from both primary sources involved with the Tour and it's players, and secondary sources from other instructors, journalists, and the like that speak to Haney's poor knowledge of the golf swing. 

There are many examples of him being wrong about the golf swing, including something as easily verifiable as the ball flight laws. Perhaps Haney's ideas on swing plane are correct; I don't think so, but let's just say they are. If an instructor with his pedigree doesn't know the ball starts by the face (more or less) and curves because of path (more or less), then he isn't a very good instructor. 

I don't dispute anything you say, but why would Tiger Woods have kept Haney on the payroll for 6 years if he's such a lousy instructor?  

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

My understanding is Tiger had certain ideas about what he wanted to do with his swing and Harmon was against making any changes so Tiger switched to Haney because his friend Mark O'Meara recommended Haney.  How much input Haney actually had on Tigers swing is unknown.  

Thanks for the reasoned response. I don't know how much Haney impacted Tiger's swing either, but TW was pretty successful during the Haney years. And he did keep Haney on the payroll for 6 years, so he must have been at least pretty happy with Haney's input.  

[jbishop15]

14 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I don't dispute anything you say, but why would Tiger Woods have kept Haney on the payroll for 6 years if he's such a lousy instructor?  

Thanks for the reasoned response. I don't know how much Haney impacted Tiger's swing either, but TW was pretty successful during the Haney years. And he did keep Haney on the payroll for 6 years, so he must have been at least pretty happy with Haney's input.  

The same reason that any of us believe any wrong thing; we don't know any better. 

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, jbishop15 said:

The same reason that any of us believe any wrong thing; we don't know any better. 

Pretty much. I wonder how much Hank piggy backed off how good Tiger was? 

[jbishop15]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

Pretty much. I wonder how much Hank piggy backed off how good Tiger was? 

A lot. 

I think Tiger made both Butch Harmon and Haney look at lot more knowledgeable than they actually are. 

[newtogolf]

18 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

I don't dispute anything you say, but why would Tiger Woods have kept Haney on the payroll for 6 years if he's such a lousy instructor?  

Thanks for the reasoned response. I don't know how much Haney impacted Tiger's swing either, but TW was pretty successful during the Haney years. And he did keep Haney on the payroll for 6 years, so he must have been at least pretty happy with Haney's input.  

I think Tiger liked Haney because he was laid back and didn't force anything on Tiger.  If you read "The Big Miss" you'd see that Haney was often quite frustrated with Tiger because Tiger wouldn't follow his advice.  

I'm not saying Haney didn't do anything for Tiger but at this point he's far removed from knowing what Tiger is working on golf wise, what his rehab schedule is or any other details about his life or golf swing that isn't available to the rest of us who follow golf and Tiger.  

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

A lot. 

I think Tiger made both Butch Harmon and Haney look at lot more knowledgeable than they actually are. 

I think Butch is one of the better ones. He's done really good stuff with Dustin Johnson, Rickie Fowler, and Adam Scott. At least he has a pretty solid resume outside of Tiger.

Heck I could say Tiger picked Hank more because Hank was teaching Mark O'Meara, who is a very good friend of Tiger. 

Besides those two, I have no clue who Hank is teaching. It's like Hank fell off the map after Tiger left him. Again, make sense when you look at the tacky infomercials he is doing lately. 

 

[boogielicious]

FWIW, Hank was very nice when I met him last September. He didn't mention Tiger at all. I don't begrudge someone for trying to make money.

[Pendragon]

17 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

I know the golf swing better than Hank Haney-And I could name other people on the site who do too.

Even @cedrictheo makes my list.-Not a slam at all on @cedrictheo either.

Good news! You'll be happy to know that Hank Haney is #10 on Golf Digest's new 2015/2016 ranking of the 50 Best Golf Instructors in America, up from his #11 spot on their 2014/2015 list. So maybe he does know just a little bit about teaching the game. I guess now you and a few others here will now be saying that those morons at Golf Digest don't know anything. LOL. 

 

[turtleback]

18 hours ago, Pendragon said:

Of course Haney would have more insight on Tiger's swing than we would...probably a lot more insight! Just because he's not Tiger's coach anymore doesn't mean he doesn't have an educated opinion on the subject. What's your beef with Haney? He may be a jerk, but he knows more about the golf swing than anyone here. Am I wrong?

Haney hasn't coached Tiger for years so I don't know why he would be expected to have any more insight into his swing than any other knowledgeable instructor.  And the point of the video wasn't for swing analysis in the first place, it was to show physical status.  

And being famous isn't the same as being good.  I'm sure that there are many many instructors who know way more than Haney and some of them are on and even own this site.  I'll give you the assumption that Haney knows more about the swing than the non-instructors here, although a lot of them know the ball flight laws better.

 

17 hours ago, Pendragon said:

One of the reasons our country is so great is that we're all free to express our opinions. You've expressed yours. I respectfully think you're mistaken, IMHO.

I think we can agree, though, that there are instructors on this site who wish they made a tenth of what Haney makes every year. 

"If you're so smart why aren't you rich?"  

Not that it really matters, but the funny thing is that there are a lot of public people that we assume are rich but really aren't.  And some really really smart people who have goals other than getting rich.

 

16 hours ago, jbishop15 said:

A lot. 

I think Tiger made both Butch Harmon and Haney look at lot more knowledgeable than they actually are. 

I agree with Haney, but Harmon has worked with other players with success.  Haney has done nothing since Tiger.  Except try to profit off of his name.  Harmon also profited by his association with Tiger, but he did so because players perceived his quality based on what he did with Tiger  He isn't out there every 5 minutes trying to keep the Tiger connection alive in people's minds.  And he is in demand among top players.

That doesn't seem to have happened with Haney.  

5 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Good news! You'll be happy to know that Hank Haney is #10 on Golf Digest's new 2015/2016 ranking of the 50 Best Golf Instructors in America, up from his #11 spot on their 2014/2015 list. So maybe he does know just a little bit about teaching the game. I guess now you and a few others here will now be saying that those morons at Golf Digest don't know anything. LOL. 

 

Have you READ some of the "instruction" articles those guys write?  Or their rules articles?

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Good news! You'll be happy to know that Hank Haney is #10 on Golf Digest's new 2015/2016 ranking of the 50 Best Golf Instructors in America, up from his #11 spot on their 2014/2015 list. So maybe he does know just a little bit about teaching the game. I guess now you and a few others here will now be saying that those morons at Golf Digest don't know anything. LOL. 

I was going to say, "Like everything Golf Digest ever said was 100% factual and correct." 

Seems to me Golf Digest just pander to what will get people to visit their website over quality of content. 

I wouldn't trust that list. It looks more like people are voting because of the name over the quality of the instructor. David Leadbetter should not be in the top 50. 

 

 

[newtogolf]

28 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Good news! You'll be happy to know that Hank Haney is #10 on Golf Digest's new 2015/2016 ranking of the 50 Best Golf Instructors in America, up from his #11 spot on their 2014/2015 list. So maybe he does know just a little bit about teaching the game. I guess now you and a few others here will now be saying that those morons at Golf Digest don't know anything. LOL. 

 

Haney has been a columnist for Golf Digest since his Tiger years so I'm not sure I'd consider that list objective, nor would I agree that much written in Golf Digest is accurate.  

[Pendragon]

18 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I was going to say, "Like everything Golf Digest ever said was 100% factual and correct." 

Seems to me Golf Digest just pander to what will get people to visit their website over quality of content. 

I wouldn't trust that list. It looks more like people are voting because of the name over the quality of the instructor. David Leadbetter should not be in the top 50. 

 

 

Thanks for the input. I just get a kick out of some these guys here on this site who think they know a lot about the golf swing...and maybe they do...but they seem to resent guys like Haney, Harmon, or Leadbetter who have achieved great success through teaching. I'd still contend that Haney must have been doing something right during the 6 years that Tiger relied on him and had some nice success. Surely Haney still knows something about the swing, contrary to what some here say.   

12 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Haney has been a columnist for Golf Digest since his Tiger years so I'm not sure I'd consider that list objective, nor would I agree that much written in Golf Digest is accurate.  

Well, at least you didn't say they're morons. 

[saevel25]

14 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

Thanks for the input. I just get a kick out of some these guys here on this site who think they know a lot about the golf swing...and maybe they do...but they seem to resent guys like Haney, Harmon, or Leadbetter who have achieved great success through teaching. 

Did they achieve success from actually making golfer better. Or did they ride the backs of the tour player's name? 

Given there is probably some really good instructors on that list. I would take that list as dogma. 

 

[Shindig]

I agree with this quote, taken out-of-context.

1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

 those morons at Golf Digest don't know anything. LOL. 

[jbishop15]

1 hour ago, Pendragon said:

Thanks for the input. I just get a kick out of some these guys here on this site who think they know a lot about the golf swing...and maybe they do...but they seem to resent guys like Haney, Harmon, or Leadbetter who have achieved great success through teaching. I'd still contend that Haney must have been doing something right during the 6 years that Tiger relied on him and had some nice success. Surely Haney still knows something about the swing, contrary to what some here say.   

Well, at least you didn't say they're morons. 

I think we can find any number of people in any number of professions that are in a position of power for long periods of time and do a bad job. And if there is resentment towards Haney, Harmon, Leadbetter; whatever, it's less about jealousy and more about them spreading misinformation. 

[jamo]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

FWIW, Hank was very nice when I met him last September. He didn't mention Tiger at all. I don't begrudge someone for trying to make money.

I don't necessarily begrudge him either. I just don't care to indulge him.

[14ledo81]

@Pendragon, i will say what you seem (IMO) to be waiting for.  I think the owner of this site (and those he is affiliated with) are the best instructors in the world. If money was no object, and I could have any instructor out there, I would still pick Erik, Mike, or Dave. Not even a hard decision for me.  You may consider me a moron for that, but I think it makes me pretty smart.... :)