Evolution of High Launch and Low Spin

[saevel25]

A high spinning ball will balloon more into the wind because the wind will increase the spin on the ball.

It really doesn't increase spin on the ball that, more that it increases the high and low pressure from the front to the back of the ball, which drives the ball upward. That is how a ball curves, because of a pressure difference. So basically hitting into the wind increased pressure on the front of the ball. So the ball wants to go higher if you have mostly spin around the horizontal axis.

[mvmac]

Thanks for sharing @mvmac

How does this change driving into the wind?

Less spin I would guess means ball won't be pushed up as much by the wind but launch is higher so it's a wash?

Does teeing it low and swinging slower still apply?

I guess you missed my last post

When it's windy I don't change anything, I still try to launch it high, optimal is optimal, if the spin is low the wind won't effect it much.

[LuciusWooding]

I have to agree, it's something I've been thinking about in my own game since I haven't had a consistent knockdown tee shot. Whenever I think I made a mistake hitting my ball high, it usually goes pretty far. I also usually get a straighter flight unless I hit it thin, so I think bombing it out there is the better option in all cases. Even in a crosswind, the ball tends to hold its line when I hit it high vs trying to fade or draw it to counter the wind.

[Lihu]

I have to agree, it's something I've been thinking about in my own game since I haven't had a consistent knockdown tee shot. Whenever I think I made a mistake hitting my ball high, it usually goes pretty far. I also usually get a straighter flight unless I hit it thin, so I think bombing it out there is the better option in all cases. Even in a crosswind, the ball tends to hold its line when I hit it high vs trying to fade or draw it to counter the wind.

Someone should do a detailed analysis. It would be interesting to know how much you need to compensate, even if only a little bit.

[boogielicious]

I have to agree, it's something I've been thinking about in my own game since I haven't had a consistent knockdown tee shot. Whenever I think I made a mistake hitting my ball high, it usually goes pretty far. I also usually get a straighter flight unless I hit it thin, so I think bombing it out there is the better option in all cases. Even in a crosswind, the ball tends to hold its line when I hit it high vs trying to fade or draw it to counter the wind.

Same with me.  I have been working hard to get the flight up and I don't want to change it for any reason.  I am not good enough with the driver to have a different swing or position for different shots.

[Lihu]

Same with me.  I have been working hard to get the flight up and I don't want to change it for any reason.  I am not good enough with the driver to have a different swing or position for different shots.

As with many more of us

BTW, even "IF" I get a good shaped shot, my swing is the same. I just set up differently for the shot. That's what I think I've been told to do anyway.

[mchepp]

Wow, really great information Mike. Thank you for sharing.

So the conclusion is we need to reduce the backspin. Is that the main thing we are suppose to do? And the recommendation is to increase the loft? That cannot be the only suggestion. What else should we do?

Sorry if I am being dense, but I want to know what the conclusion should be because it is hard for me to accept we should only change the loft.

[mvmac]

Wow, really great information Mike. Thank you for sharing.

So the conclusion is we need to reduce the backspin. Is that the main thing we are suppose to do? And the recommendation is to increase the loft? That cannot be the only suggestion. What else should we do?

Sorry if I am being dense, but I want to know what the conclusion should be because it is hard for me to accept we should only change the loft.

Make sure your angle of attack is positive. That will decrease the spin loft.

From TaylorMade's perspective, they obviously don't get into swing mechanics, they position the CoG low and forward (reduces spin) and they add loft.

[Pretzel]

My question about the "high launch, low spin" motto for longer drives is that I wonder how it affects accuracy. I would assume that you would find less curvature of the ball with the same spin axis just because the ball is spinning less, but I want to know would the spin axis be more readily changed if the backspin is reduced? I would assume that drivers designed to lower spin would lower the "sidespin" as well as the backspin, but I just would like clarification on that.

As an interesting aside, I've used a 10.5* driver for years (Ping G10 with a ProLaunch Red in it) and have never found a benefit to the lower lofted drivers myself. Whenever I would hit them it would travel a shorter distance and have less accuracy. In addition to that I personally haven't found new drivers to be groundbreaking in either category for me, but I have only tested them with stock shafts (which performed worse than the ProLaunch Red for me in the same driver head before) so it wasn't exactly comparing apples to apples. I will say though that it's tempting to get the new shiny after having a small piece of paint flake off the center (laterally and longitudinally) of the driver's head.

[Spitfisher]

Make sure your angle of attack is positive. That will decrease the spin loft.

From TaylorMade's perspective, they obviously don't get into swing mechanics, they position the CoG low and forward (reduces spin) and they add loft.

Correct, having attended the same presentation, Mine was conducted by Dr. Vincent Benoit CTO of TM. Fascinating stuff.

One element missing from the slides is unlike any other driver they have made the SLDR knocks 500-1000Rpms of spin off the vast majority of golfers, allowing them to loft up from 9 & 10degs  to 12 and 14s -However if you are currently hitting a 9-10.5 deg. Titleist** driver &  simply take and hit a 13 degree same model driver, that spin rate shoots way up in RPMs. You have increased LOFT you are hitting the ball higher, but you also engaged a lot more spin as price of that loft.- which can kill any distance you had in mind.

** just an example

This unique high launch, low spin scenario doesn't stop when the ball is air born, the decent angle is often more favorable, there can also be a high bounce at impact adding some extra yards

For over a decade I played with a 9-9.5, now I play 11.5 SLDR and have never hit a driver further.

[Spitfisher]

My question about the "high launch, low spin" motto for longer drives is that I wonder how it affects accuracy. I would assume that you would find less curvature of the ball with the same spin axis just because the ball is spinning less, but I want to know would the spin axis be more readily changed if the backspin is reduced? I would assume that drivers designed to lower spin would lower the "sidespin" as well as the backspin, but I just would like clarification on that.

As an interesting aside, I've used a 10.5* driver for years (Ping G10 with a ProLaunch Red in it) and have never found a benefit to the lower lofted drivers myself. Whenever I would hit them it would travel a shorter distance and have less accuracy. In addition to that I personally haven't found new drivers to be groundbreaking in either category for me, but I have only tested them with stock shafts (which performed worse than the ProLaunch Red for me in the same driver head before) so it wasn't exactly comparing apples to apples. I will say though that it's tempting to get the new shiny after having a small piece of paint flake off the center (laterally and longitudinally) of the driver's head.

If your question is will you be able to move (draw/fade) the ball with these high lofted drivers the answer is yes. No real difference. They can fly straighter ( read: accurate) simply because of loft angages more back spin. ever try to slice or hook a 9 iron- its tough to do because of all the loft.

on a side note that prolaunch red shaft was awful IMO

[Pretzel]

If your question is will you be able to move (draw/fade) the ball with these high lofted drivers the answer is yes. No real difference. They can fly straighter ( read: accurate) simply because of loft angages more back spin. ever try to slice or hook a 9 iron- its tough to do because of all the loft.

on a side note that prolaunch red shaft was awful IMO

I'm talking about when I miss, it shouldn't be any bigger than my current miss, correct?

I do agree that there are better shafts out there, but that one was a free upgrade in the G10 and it was a whole lot better than what Ping had at the time. Their shaft they had labeled as a "stiff" played more like a senior flex since it flopped around like a wet noodle and it gave me a spin of upwards of 4500 rpm for me. I wish I could afford to get something a bit nicer, but not enough benefit for me to do so when you consider the cost put in (a couple lessons would be more beneficial to me).

[mvmac]

I'm talking about when I miss, it shouldn't be any bigger than my current miss, correct?

Shouldn't curve more, if anything you might be a little straighter. Gear effect would be very similar on off center hits.

[iacas]

My question about the "high launch, low spin" motto for longer drives is that I wonder how it affects accuracy. I would assume that you would find less curvature of the ball with the same spin axis just because the ball is spinning less, but I want to know would the spin axis be more readily changed if the backspin is reduced? I would assume that drivers designed to lower spin would lower the "sidespin" as well as the backspin, but I just would like clarification on that.

I'm going to say that it's possible, for the same reasons as shown in the geeky video I did about why drivers curve more than 8-irons. If you narrow the spin loft, any tilt is magnified.

It's one of the reasons why PGA Tour players may still average slightly down, despite the gains distance offers in strokes saving (plus, that they hit the ball far enough).

Still, though, I recommend this as an even bigger reason why it's important to develop a pattern. If your ball always cuts, it's much easier to plan for everything from straight to big cut than if your ball sometimes cuts and sometimes draws.

[Spitfisher]

I'm talking about when I miss, it shouldn't be any bigger than my current miss, correct?

I do agree that there are better shafts out there, but that one was a free upgrade in the G10 and it was a whole lot better than what Ping had at the time. Their shaft they had labeled as a "stiff" played more like a senior flex since it flopped around like a wet noodle and it gave me a spin of upwards of 4500 rpm for me. I wish I could afford to get something a bit nicer, but not enough benefit for me to do so when you consider the cost put in (a couple lessons would be more beneficial to me).

Correct it should not be any worse, in fact it may be less. Sorry for the misunderstanding on my part to your question

[mvmac]

Bubba's recent numbers. 15 degrees launch, 1900 spin...oh yeah and he hit up 5.7 degrees

[billchao]

Bubba's recent numbers. 15 degrees launch, 1900 spin...oh yeah and he hit up 5.7 degrees

That's nasty. I really have to start figuring out this low spin stuff for myself.

[Zeph]

This is an area where launch monitors prove very useful. It's not very easy to work on this at the range without seeing numbers.