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Posted
I thought I should share this. I was at a driving range yesterday and was taking about a dollar bill sized divot in front of the ball (more or less) and the pro came out and said I shouldn't be taking divots at all! I should be lightly brushing the grass not taking divots. I thought this was odd. He told me to cup my wrist in the backswing to help shallow out my swing. I asked him how that will help and he said, "I'm not giving this instruction to benefit you but to benefit my grass!" I thought this was a very strange experience. Anyone else have an experience similar to this?

- Jered

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Posted

Hmmmmm...I would Ignore his comment..or, instruction if you will..

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Posted
You can help preserve his grass further by never going there again.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Posted
You can help preserve his grass further by never going there again.

QFT FTG!

Nate

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Posted

Go there everyday and take lots of dollar sized divots.

Scott

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Posted
He said the next time I go he's gonna put my off to the side in the tree line. Lol!

- Jered

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Posted
He said the next time I go he's gonna put my off to the side in the tree line. Lol!

Are your dollars the same sizes as everyone else's? :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Posted
You should show up with a mammoth niblick. You could throw shovefuls of turf downrange. Just be sure to fill the holes with sand and wave and smile as you leave!

Tom R.

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Posted
Are your dollars the same sizes as everyone else's? :-)

About the size of a savings bond. Jk, normally they are Slightly smaller than a bill.

- Jered

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Posted

Here is another side of that scenario. On the driving range it cost money to repair divots, because (IMHO) most folks who are practicing do not repair their divots. Eventually others who use the driving range are looking for a clean piece of turf to hit off of. Over the course of a few months, the grass is pretty much gone, and maintenance brings in the rubber mats, while they re-grow the grass destroyed by those practicing. Now it is also my opinion that most folks when actually on the course golfing repair their divots. Every time you take a divot, even on the practice range, you need to replace/repair that divot. Make it part of your "post shot" routine. The funny one I see more often than not, is the golfer in a practice bunker who when done, will rake the sand. However, that same golfer won't repair the turf they damage when using the grassy parts of the practice area.

As for taking a divot or not, that's up to the individual. I take divots, and the shorter the iron, the deeper the divot I take. I repair/replace all of them. Now sometimes when I get on a course that is some where between firm, and just plain hard, I don't take divots. This is to prevent injury to me, and/or damage to my clubs. There are quite a few courses out there that do not have divot friendly fairways. When I was golfing, and traveling a lot, I would play 25-35 different courses per year. I saw a quite a few different playing conditions as far as the turf was concerned. The farther north I played the better the conditions were for taking a divot. The higher the green fees also meant (usually) divot friendly fairways. Some times over watering might make a golfer think twice about taking a divot. Some of these desert courses I am playing right now are not divot friendly. Even some of the bunkers are pretty hard.

I know quite a few golfers who play with single digit hdcps who never take a divot. They either just brush the turf in front of the ball, or like a lot of golfers I see, they sort of "scoop" the ball off the turf. Those who scoop, sacrifice some distance, while hitting higher ball flights. Some of those who never took a divot, said they were too lazy to replace/repair their divots, so they did not take one for that single reason. Good for them I say.

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Posted

The "pro" is an idiot.....however, please make sue that you're doing your part by leaving a clean divot pattern, and not a "bomb crator"!

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Posted

@David in FL beat me to it but I'll post it anyway. I grew up doing it the third way (in the video) and changed it in college to taking longer strips.

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted
Here is another side of that scenario. On the driving range it cost money to repair divots, because (IMHO) most folks who are practicing do not repair their divots. Eventually others who use the driving range are looking for a clean piece of turf to hit off of. Over the course of a few months, the grass is pretty much gone, and maintenance brings in the rubber mats, while they re-grow the grass destroyed by those practicing. Now it is also my opinion that most folks when actually on the course golfing repair their divots. Every time you take a divot, even on the practice range, you need to replace/repair that divot. Make it part of your "post shot" routine. The funny one I see more often than not, is the golfer in a practice bunker who when done, will rake the sand. However, that same golfer won't repair the turf they damage when using the grassy parts of the practice area.        As for taking a divot or not, that's up to the individual. I take divots, and the shorter the iron, the deeper the divot I take. I repair/replace all of them. Now sometimes when I get on a course that is some where between firm, and just plain hard, I don't take divots. This is to prevent injury to me, and/or damage to my clubs. There are quite a few courses out there that do not have divot friendly fairways. When I was golfing, and traveling a lot, I would play 25-35 different courses per year. I saw a quite a few different playing conditions as far as the turf was concerned. The farther north I played the better the conditions were for taking a divot. The higher the green fees also meant (usually) divot friendly fairways. Some times over watering might make a golfer think twice about taking a divot. Some of these desert courses I am playing right now are not divot friendly. Even some of the bunkers are pretty hard.       I know quite a few golfers who play with single digit hdcps who never take a divot. They either just brush the turf in front of the ball, or like a lot of golfers I see, they sort of "scoop" the ball off the turf. Those who scoop, sacrifice some distance, while hitting higher ball flights. Some of those who never took a divot, said they were too lazy to replace/repair their divots, so they did not take one for that single reason. Good for them I say.

I couldn't really replace the divots. It's really just a big field so there isn't any fully intact divots to replace. We just fill them in with sand. This range isn't associated with or at a course. I do rows of divots and leave a strip of grass in between them because I learned on here that it helps the grass grow back quicker.

- Jered

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Posted
The "pro" is an idiot.....however, please make sue that you're doing your part by leaving a clean divot pattern, and not a "bomb crator"!

It helps, but for those of us who hit it fat now and then, the line quickly becomes a long one. :-(

I wouldn't call a pro that tells you you shouldn't take a divot a pro. He's either lying to save his grass, or seriously misinformed.

I can't replace any divots on the practice range since the turf is too frail. The divots are more a could of dirt and grass than a single object. Does replacing divots help on a driving range? I've heard some say that replacing a divot means the damage will take longer to heal, since the roots won't re-attach anyways. Some courses I've been to has had posters telling players to not replace divots on the course because of this.

I suppose it would be possible to replace divots and have other players hit off it again on a range with good grass, but I didn't know it was a thing.

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    • Please see this topic for updated information:
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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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