2014 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[Silent]

Also Watson's "Captain's" picks obviously sucked.  Bradley was 1-2-0, Mahan was  1-2-1 and Simpson was 0-1-1. Notably, none of them won their singles match.

Performances of Euro's captain's picks:

Gallacher: 0 points (2 matches)

Poulter: 1 point (3 matches, no wins)

Westwood: 2 points (4 matches)

Also none of them won their singles match. Form of the day aside, mostly captain's picks are not as good golfers as the rest of the field, otherwise they would have qualified automatically I guess.

[natureboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skydog

2.) We need a captain who relies on more than hunches in the Foursomes segment and need to do our best to put together some kind of 'Money Ball' style formula to figure out pairings for alternate shot.

Hire Mark Broadie as a consultant. I agree that the Euros probably use a combination of personality matching and Strokes Gained analysis to find pairings that complement each other. For example, I think I saw that Hunter Mahan wasn't on the tee for the odd holes, because his partner (don't remember who) was a better putter. I looked at the 2013 stats and they were about equally matched in SGP. Now in Stokes Gained Driving, Mahan blew the other guy away. So that was taking away a bigger skill advantage for a smaller one. Only made a difference for one hole, though, I suppose.

Quote:

3.) 95% of the American team can't play in cold/inclement weather. Watching every American come up 1-2 clubs short every day on 17 this week was infuriaiting because they apparently can't figure out the ball doesn't travel as far in cold Scotland as it does in Orlando. Obviously we can't control the Euro course choice but choosing to play in Minnesota (or Chicago) in late September is idiotic and gives the Euros a clear advantage. In the future the PGA has to be smarter about our course choices and factor weather into the equation.

Not just club selection, but possibly comfort and energy levels too. I think the chill may have had an impact on the slightly older U.S. squad and Phil in particular due to his arthritis issue. If it had been perfect conditions, I think the European players probably still would have been in better form.

[newtogolf]

I thought about it and went through the process, and I have no idea what you mean? I think @Drew 3223 made a valid point that they just didn't play that well. And should we even be surprised? Europe was the favorite after all.

Lastly, I think @chriskzoo made a good point of showing just how easily we could have won if we would've played better golf down the stretch in just 4 of the matches.

I think the general point is that a manager / captains job is to manage their team for success and to aide them in performing to their highest potential.  I admit I'm being an armchair QB but I was so underwhelmed with Watson's management of the team I can't help but believe if we had a better captain our performance would have been better.  Watson couldn't even explain his strategy for sitting Reed and Spieth on Friday or Phil and Keegan on Saturday which usually means he didn't have one.

I also agree that the Europeans had a better team, but I think with a better captain we had a chance to win and at a minimum the final score would have been a lot closer.

[sinned123]

It was tough listening to the conference w/ the Americans and Phil sorta throwing Watson under a bus w/ the celebration going outside....jeez, thought they could've waited a day for the emotion to settle after another loss and to collect ones thoughts.....oh well...

[taxgolf]

To put my 2 cents on it, for what it's worth.

The team selection is what it is. You can argue al you want about other choices, but that makes no sense. It is done. That team had to prove it (and they failed). I feel mr. Reed led by example. Unfortunately, the rest of his team didn't follow.

Call me naive, but on paper, the USA team was quite strong. Multiple tour en Major winners! So those guys can play golf. They had a chance. Credit where credit is due. Team Europa stepped up to the plate and delivered. A lot of guys had a (relative) quite season! Westwood, Mcdowell, Poulter, their season is not great this year. Dubuison, Donaldson, Callagher, they had to prove themselves. And more or less did. Garcia, a hothead, can go both ways.

I am a bit disappointed that virtually nobody in team USA, except Reed, could rise to the occasion. They could not find the extra notch. Or crumble under pressure. I think Mahan played decent against a strong Rose, but he let him escape. Choke?

I do not know how it works in golf? Can you find your form even if it's off for a while? Could it be sparked by such an event? Poulter has a bad season in my opinion, yet he seems to be able to rise his game (which he can not do in a given PGA tournament).

Europe played some fantastic golf, were very motivated. Somehow, I feel team USA could and should have made it a tougher fight. You get the impression that they fought captain Tom instead of team Europe.

[Gunther]

So much wisdom here. I really can't add anything more except one thing I haven't seen said since 16.5-11.5: Goddammit.

[saevel25]

Hire Mark Broadie as a consultant. I agree that the Euros probably use a combination of personality matching and Strokes Gained analysis to find pairings that complement each other. For example, I think I saw that Hunter Mahan wasn't on the tee for the odd holes, because his partner (don't remember who) was a better putter. I looked at the 2013 stats and they were about equally matched in SGP. Now in Stokes Gained Driving, Mahan blew the other guy away. So that was taking away a bigger skill advantage for a smaller one. Only made a difference for one hole, though, I suppose.

Not just club selection, but possibly comfort and energy levels too. I think the chill may have had an impact on the slightly older U.S. squad and Phil in particular due to his arthritis issue. If it had been perfect conditions, I think the European players probably still would have been in better form.

Well Rory smoked Fowler in singles match and he lives in Florida and plays golf primarily in the USA now. So I am not sure about this whole, "Oh US players can't play in cold weather". A lot of European players live in Florida so they can play golf year round.

I think it had to do with energy as well. I think it is poor choice to play the Fed-Ex cup so close to the Ryder Cup.

Justin Rose was talking about how spent he was on Sunday. How he just kept playing level till he could put enough energy in to go on a stretch. I think the Europeans were able to keep their energy much more even. Looks to me like the American's just burned out in the afternoon matches and the singles.

[skydog]

Well Rory smoked Fowler in singles match and he lives in Florida and plays golf primarily in the USA now. So I am not sure about this whole, "Oh US players can't play in cold weather". A lot of European players live in Florida so they can play golf year round.

I think it had to do with energy as well. I think it is poor choice to play the Fed-Ex cup so close to the Ryder Cup.

Justin Rose was talking about how spent he was on Sunday. How he just kept playing level till he could put enough energy in to go on a stretch. I think the Europeans were able to keep their energy much more even. Looks to me like the American's just burned out in the afternoon matches and the singles.

Rory and some of the other Euros live in Florida now but that doesn't mean they have forgotten how to play in the cool, damp weather where they grew up and spent 90% of their life. It makes a huge difference- american tour players rarely play in temps under 70 degrees and it showed this week.

But no doubt the fedex cup hurts our cause. The tour has a lot to figure out with regards to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I wish the Ryder Cup were played in the Spring, but that's just wishful thinking.

[misty_mountainhop]

Rory and some of the other Euros live in Florida now but that doesn't mean they have forgotten how to play in the cool, damp weather where they grew up and spent 90% of their life. It makes a huge difference- american tour players rarely play in temps under 70 degrees and it showed this week.

But no doubt the fedex cup hurts our cause. The tour has a lot to figure out with regards to the playoffs. In an ideal world, I wish the Ryder Cup were played in the Spring, but that's just wishful thinking.

The British Open and other European events in the past have been played in cool/cold/wet/windy weather (even in the midst of our Summers!) but that didn't stop the U.S. big boys of the past winning them. The temps at Gleneagles last weekend were unseasonably warm . It was 20+ (°C) in many places in the U.K. over the weekend. OK, relatively cold at 07.30 or whenever the Friday/Saturdays teed off but otherwise, the weather was great.

I don't think you can blame the weather, or the course. It's clearly something other than pure shot-making ability. I think Chamblee hit the proverbial nail on the head in his post-match comments.

[misty_mountainhop]

Hysterical! As well as flying in alone (some team spirit Phil!) and having shat all over the event in a childish fit of pique on the back of the recent loss, Phil swans off the same way:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/golf/rydercup/11127653/Phil-Mickelson-flies-home-alone-from-Gleneagles-after-Ryder-Cup-tirade-at-USA-captain-Tom-Watson.html

Classy. Truly classy.

[Kieran123]

Well that went about as expected...if anyone thought it would be any closer, they're delusional

[isukgolf]

Never thought USA had a chance ... but glad it was Phil with the comments ... can't imagine if Tiger had gone and said the same thing ...

[eich41]

My "late to the party" thoughts:

- The only two questionable calls Watson made IMO, were to play Keegan/Mickelson twice on day 1 then bench them all of Saturday, and perhaps the biggest was to play Walker/Fowler all four matches on Friday and Saturday.  They had played solid but not great, and they went all 18 every match.  If they had closed out some teams 5 &4 it wouldn't have been as big of a deal, but asking two guys (any of them) to play 90 holes of extremely competitive golf in three days is asking a lot.

- Bubba might as well stay at home for any event (Ryder Cup, Tour Events, British Open) that's held in Europe.  He's awful when he's on European soil.  He had by far the poorest performance on the US team, and never seemed to be into it, but rather just going through the motions.  Hopefully he got to see what 17 &18 looked like during the practice rounds, because he never sniffed them in competition.

-  The US still had a great shot Sunday morning, but Spieth's collapse and Hunters WTF moment at 18 finished any hope the US had.  Hunter's was so predictable.  He had stood over his ball for 5 minutes, and when the coverage cut back to him, he STILL didn't even have a club in his hand.  It was a difficult chip, but he had no clue what he wanted to do there.  He has to get that ball on the green somewhere and at least give himself a chance at birdie.  Taking the highest risk option made no sense there.

- As for Spieth, it's hard to rag on him when he played so well Friday and Saturday, but when you're down 2 with 3 to play, YOU CAN'T LEAVE A BIRDIE PUTT SHORT.  You also can't be two clubs short on the par 3.  It's match play and you need to be aggressive.

-  In the end the US team had some good performances, ironically from it's rookies, who seemed to really want to be there while guys like Bubba looked like they'd rather be at home watching football on the couch.  They also had some "average" performances.  Guys like Kuchar, Phil, Keegan, etc.   They certainly didn't earn an A, but they were solid.  You can't have your whole team go 3-0-0.

- The difference through the whole weekend was the putting.  The US players were missing 4-8 footers to halve or win holes.  The Europeans were making 25-30 footers to do the same.

Overall we were a couple shots away on Sunday morning to having a very interesting finish play out, but the Europeans made the shots they needed to, while the US missed theirs.  It'll be interesting to see what the RC looks like in 2016, and I'm looking forward to it.

[mvmac]

Since the press conference was kind of a big deal, I've started a thread specifically for that discussion, also vote in the poll

[Nosevi]

[quote name="ChrisP" url="/t/77288/2014-ryder-cup-discussion-thread/480#post_1060015"] That would make more sense if the actual European Team played on the European Tour more. Most of them are full time PGA members.

They all started at the European Tour, You know that right? So they do have the experience to play at all. Also most players dont play exclusively on the PGA. And even if some of them do, the Euro team will always be a mix of both (at least 4 players from the Euro list qualify).[/quote] [quote name="ChrisP" url="/t/77288/2014-ryder-cup-discussion-thread/504#post_1060020"][QUOTE name="Silent" url="/t/77288/2014-ryder-cup-discussion-thread/504#post_1060018"] They all started at the European Tour, You know that right? So they do have the experience to play at all. Also most players dont play exclusively on the PGA. And even if some of them do, the Euro team will always be a mix of both (at least 4 players from the Euro list qualify).[/QUOTE] I know that, but I'm not sure that makes much of a difference. All our guys play on the PGA Tour yet we can't win a Ryder Cup on our own soil. [/quote] Sorry if this is a while after this in the thread, just reading through it, but no, all the European players play on the European tour. All play some events that are solely on the European tour while Majors and WGC tournaments are both PGA and European Tour events they are not solely PGA Tour events. This year Rory has played 12 European Tour sanctioned events, Sergio 13, Henrik 15...... They all have to maintain their European Tour status or they can't play for Europe in the Ryder cup.

[natureboy]

Hire Mark Broadie as a consultant. I agree that the Euros probably use a combination of personality matching and Strokes Gained analysis to find pairings that complement each other. For example, I think I saw that Hunter Mahan wasn't on the tee for the odd holes, because his partner (don't remember who) was a better putter. I looked at the 2013 stats and they were about equally matched in SGP. Now in Stokes Gained Driving, Mahan blew the other guy away. So that was taking away a bigger skill advantage for a smaller one. Only made a difference for one hole, though, I suppose.

The other guy was Zac Johnson for Friday foursomes.

[FarawayFairways]

Very, very sad

Got to go to Gleneagles tomorrow and here I am writing a piece about exactly what I didn't want to write. You ask round Scotland for bad stories about Tom. You won't find them. Hell I know that encause I've been trying for ages. I won't comment on Phil (but its mixed)

If we had to lose (and I think we probably need to) then I wanted to do so to Tom Watson

It was obvious from about June onwards however that he was losing the plot and control of the debate

I do remember raising concerns on this board about it, citing a few incidents, (I had a lot more lined up) but didn't really feel able to lay into Tom. You have to realise that for those of us of certain age Tom was our introduction to golf, and in that respect we thank him and America, and certainly more so than someone who couldn't be bothered to turn up at Gleneagles in early July, nor eve name check the Ryder Cup whe he'd qualified for it unti such time that Tiger pulled out

of

I also said in my original posting on the subject that I didn't want to see Tom Watson humiliated, sadly that's what we've seen. It hurts. But I guess it was coming

Tom made mistakes and they were apparent from about June. I'm surprised they weren't seized on earlier. I drew some them out but held most of my observations back as I couldn't honestly be bothered after that, for the mild abuse that followed. He continued to make them in the lead up. I'm not sure a 2 hour silly TV programme helped when the sensible solution was to defer.

What can I say?

Sad. I never wanted Tom to end up being slaughtered like this, I only hope that you, the American golf loving public round on Phil Mickelson? Something tells me you won't though

MarK James was interviewed about it today on R5. He made the point that not a single European player has ver broken rank on Faldo's mismanagemt of 2008, and also assured us that they had every to do so, but that the stories remain within the team. The frirst time that any player has ever publicly commented on that team was in response to Faldo's own observations about Garcia this weekend.That the players backed Garics tells it's story. Let's see how many weavil their way out the woodwork to support peter perfect

[RandallT]

Did I see it correctly that after Donaldson stuffed his winning shot next to the pin , there was Tom Watson sharing his hand. Seemed odd to me. Maybe I saw that wrong.