Is Distance Really That Important for Amateurs?

[mvmac]

That goes back to what i said that short game trumps everything because thats what actually puts ball in the hole.

Guys, this thread isn't about long game vs short game. That's here:

Yes let's keep things on topic please. If you want to discuss short game vs long game quote a post from this thread and respond in the appropriate thread, thanks. I'm probably going to move a few posts.

[Dave2512]

To even have a shot of 100 yards probably means most have already taken two shots to get there on a par 4. Seems that would definitely be a case for why distance is important.

[Kingkat1954]

I remember reading, somewhere in a golf magazine, that driving distance was NOT that important to the overall score in golf. If I remember correctly, it stated that even 220 yards was sufficient to break 90 for 18 holes. The article said it was accuracy that was the most important aspect for better scores.

I remember Jim Flick using the "20 yard" rule. If you hit off fairway,or green, simply pick-up ball and retreat about 20 yards and place it in fairway and continue to play. Claimed it would improve score.

Unfortunately, most of us golfers (myself included) are in awe of the distances the pros achieve. Every year newer drives claim more distance, and we continue to buy them. But, if I have NOT been able to achieve this "distance" with my old driver, (that a few years ago WAS all the rage), why do I need the latest version? I just cannot afford to buy all new every two or three years.

[Dave2512]

Golf magazines report a lot of bad info.

[mvmac]

I remember reading, somewhere in a golf magazine, that driving distance was NOT that important to the overall score in golf. If I remember correctly, it stated that even 220 yards was sufficient to break 90 for 18 holes. The article said it was accuracy that was the most important aspect for better scores.

Take a look at the rest of the thread. Accuracy and distance are both important, distance is slightly more important.

I remember Jim Flick using the "20 yard" rule. If you hit off fairway,or green, simply pick-up ball and retreat about 20 yards and place it in fairway and continue to play. Claimed it would improve score.

Generally it wouldn't. 20 yards is a lot. Were talking about a 9 iron from the rough or a 7 iron from the fairway, you'd be crazy to take the 7 iron unless you're playing in the US Open. Also higher handicappers sometimes prefer lies in the rough because it helps the ball sit up a little compared to the fairway.

For the off the green rule, let's just think about that for a second. Would you rather have a pitch/chip from just off the green or from 20 yards?

[DrvFrShow]

Here's some more statistics right from Golf Digest - hitting the green.

Bubba Watson: from 50 yds - 96%  from 100 yds - 77%

10 handicapper: 50 yds - 75%; from 100 yds - 66%

20 handicapper: 50 yds - 60%; from 100 yds - 48%

And there you have it. The closer you are, the better your chances of hitting the green.

However, the perception is that the 20+ handicapper has a better chance from 100 yds than from 50 yds. This may come from the fact that some of us are outliers who simply don't do well controlling our tee shots, but if we did we would not be 20+ handicappers. We hit the green from 100 yds about 66% of the time, and we're comfortable from that distance. So we lay up to that distance. We don't give our 50 yd lob shot but if we did we'd hit it 75% of the time.

[Dave2512]

Why would anyone layup instead of going for the green? If you are 100 out you already mishit at least one shot unless you bomb a drive or it's a par 5. I face maybe 2-4 shots a round in the 100 range some a little shorter. My average approach on a par 4 is in the 130-150 range and I have to hit it pretty far to get that close on some holes.

[turtleback]

I believe a lot of people have a completely unrealistic opinion of how good they are from 100 yards (using the example above). You always remember that 1 perfect 100 yard shot and forget the other 3. Where one missed the green completely,one was 40 ft left, and one was 35 ft short. I know I don't always hit it inside 20 ft from 100. I might expect to but it doesn't happen as much as I'd like.

I agree,  If you WERE able to hit it to 20 ft on average from 100 yards that would put you in the company of guys like Phil Mickelson and Graham McDowell, each of whom, by coincidence, averaged exactly 20.0 from 75-100 yards in 2014.

The best was Ryo Ishikawa at 11'11''.

Seriously.  I'm a 30+ HC and when I'm a 100 yards out, I expect hit it onto the green and get upset with myself when I don't.  That said, I'm sure if I kept that stat on myself, it'd show that I shouldn't be that surprised when I don't get it on the green.

I'd still get upset, though, haha.

Yeah, I'm a lower handicap and if I am honest and count everything I'd guess I am under 50%.  Perhaps by a lot.  Most people generally do not keep stats and golf stretches out over a period of time and variability of types of shots, so perception and reality seem to vary wider than we think.

I remember reading, somewhere in a golf magazine, that driving distance was NOT that important to the overall score in golf. If I remember correctly, it stated that even 220 yards was sufficient to break 90 for 18 holes. The article said it was accuracy that was the most important aspect for better scores.

I remember Jim Flick using the "20 yard" rule. If you hit off fairway,or green, simply pick-up ball and retreat about 20 yards and place it in fairway and continue to play. Claimed it would improve score.

Unfortunately, most of us golfers (myself included) are in awe of the distances the pros achieve. Every year newer drives claim more distance, and we continue to buy them. But, if I have NOT been able to achieve this "distance" with my old driver, (that a few years ago WAS all the rage), why do I need the latest version? I just cannot afford to buy all new every two or three years.

Yeah, that's why I do not read golf magazines any more.  Did you try Flick's 20 yard rule?  Did it work?  Do you know anyone who has?  Did it work for them?

And even if it did work, which I do not believe is the case, the problem is finding a club that is 20 yards shorter in distance than my driver that puts me in the fairway 100% of the time.  Or even 90% of the time.  Or even 80% of the time.

[Dave2512]

And even if it did work, which I do not believe is the case, the problem is finding a club that is 20 yards shorter in distance than my driver that puts me in the fairway 100% of the time.  Or even 90% of the time.  Or even 80% of the time.

I would have to get the 7-6 iron range to pull that off and maybe not even then. We are going to hit bad shots. Even when I consider accuracy what I really try to accomplish is reasonable accuracy. Just keeping the ball in play is usually enough to deal with most risks.

[DrvFrShow]

Why would anyone layup instead of going for the green? If you are 100 out you already mishit at least one shot unless you bomb a drive or it's a par 5. I face maybe 2-4 shots a round in the 100 range some a little shorter. My average approach on a par 4 is in the 130-150 range and I have to hit it pretty far to get that close on some holes.

Well for you guys if you're playing a 440 yd par 4, hit a 220 yd drive, and a 190 second shot, that leaves you 30 yds short of the green for an U&D.;

On a par 5 I'm usually hitting my third shot 30 to 100 yds. I'm not laying up to 100 or further out unless water or sand says I have to. There's a hole I have to lay up to 135 (8) because I can't carry the hazard with my driver. But these are exceptions. If the hazard wasn't there I'd be hitting a sand wedge.

[k-troop]

I remember reading, somewhere in a golf magazine, that driving distance was NOT that important to the overall score in golf. If I remember correctly, it stated that even 220 yards was sufficient to break 90 for 18 holes. The article said it was accuracy that was the most important aspect for better scores. I remember Jim Flick using the "20 yard" rule. If you hit off fairway,or green, simply pick-up ball and retreat about 20 yards and place it in fairway and continue to play. Claimed it would improve score.

If I could tee up a driver on every hole, let it rip as hard as I wanted, and every time I miss my line I got to drop it in the fairway with a 20 yard penalty I guarantee I'd shoot lower. Never have another penalty, blocked approach, fairway bunker shot, or bad lie again and I can attempt to carry every dogleg with impunity? This would lower my score precisely because I'd get to hit it as far as I possibly could on every tee shot and never have to worry about the consequences. [quote name="turtleback" url="/t/78188/is-distance-really-that-important-for-amateurs/860_20#post_1093365"] And even if it did work, which I do not believe is the case, the problem is finding a club that is 20 yards shorter in distance than my driver that puts me in the fairway 100% of the time.  Or even 90% of the time.  Or even 80% of the time. [/quote] Yeah, this. Unfortunately golf doesn't work that way.

[Crim]

Didn't know where else to put this, this is slightly relevant to the thread.

Ben Crenshaw this weekend at the Champions Tour opening tournament...

Dead last with 85, 85, 85. As you can see, his driving is over 30 yards below tour average. His driving accuracy is right there with the rest of the pros though. Being so far back...it's hard to hit those GIR's. In comparison, the champion Miguel Angel Jimenez averaged 296 yard drives...

[k-troop]

Didn't know where else to put this, this is slightly relevant to the thread.

Ben Crenshaw this weekend at the Champions Tour opening tournament...

Dead last with 85, 85, 85. As you can see, his driving is over 30 yards below tour average. His driving accuracy is right there with the rest of the pros though. Being so far back...it's hard to hit those GIR's. In comparison, the champion Miguel Angel Jimenez averaged 296 yard drives...

Don't think it's really relevant at all.  Ben Crenshaw is 64.  Miguel Angel Jiminez is 51.  I'm fairly certain you'll find a strong correlation between age and performance (driving distance, GIR, and scoring) on the Champions Tour.  None of that really has much relevance to the distance vs. accuracy debate for amateurs.

The most you can conclude from this is that if Ben Crenshaw could hit it 50 yards farther off the tee he'd be more competitive on the Champions Tour, which is as obvious a statement as you could make.

[Crim]

Don't think it's really relevant at all.  Ben Crenshaw is 64.  Miguel Angel Jiminez is 51.  I'm fairly certain you'll find a strong correlation between age and performance (driving distance, GIR, and scoring) on the Champions Tour.  None of that really has much relevance to the distance vs. accuracy debate for amateurs.

The most you can conclude from this is that if Ben Crenshaw could hit it 50 yards farther off the tee he'd be more competitive on the Champions Tour, which is as obvious a statement as you could make.

Fair enough. I was looking for a Crenshaw thread and found nothing, this was the next thread that came to mind....seeing as how his driving accuracy was decent and his distance was very poor.

[Dave2512]

Looks like he had other issues. Doubles on par 3's etc. Rough three days for sure.

[onthehunt526]

I think I'm starting to understand this thread... Distance is important for everyone... it makes the game a little easier... would I rather be in the fairway on every hole... Damn right... but if given the choice of playing a 380-yard hole... Driver, GW from light rough or Driver, 5-iron from the fairway I choose the gap wedge every time, because my overall proximity to the hole with the gap wedge than the 5-iron... The par-fives would I lay-up to 100 yards? Only if I had to my short game May be a little sub-par but again my proximity to the hole from improves drastically the closer I get to the green... I'm not attempting to use anecdotal evidence... but I'm using me as an example... In my honest opinion... I think the closer that you are to the green the better that you score... You have a lower statistical probably of taking 4 or more to get down from 30 yards than you do from 100... even beginners and high handicap players statistically do better from closer to the green than further away... even pros, and lower handicap players, this is true... So is Distance important for amateurs, absolutely... I think this calls for a Sand Trap study... we can all be analysts and figure this out once and for all... As a side note... who the hell wants to lay-up on a 220-yard par-3 with a forced carry? Or have to hit the best driver of their life to carry the hazard... I forgot about long par-threes hitting the Driver and not having enough to reach the green...

[Dave2512]

That's pretty much the nuts and bolts of it. Being closer increases the chance to score better. Problem is people started tossing weird scenarios and anecdotal evidence out there that really didn't do anything to refute the evidence. The take away I got, from reading the thread the related books etc. is strategically it's best for me to use the club that gets me closest to the hole while avoiding penal trouble.

[Dave2512]

That's pretty much the nuts and bolts of it. Being closer increases the chance to score better. Problem is people started tossing weird scenarios and anecdotal evidence out there that really didn't do anything to refute the evidence. The take away I got, from reading the thread the related books etc. is strategically it's best for me to use the club that gets me closest to the hole while avoiding penal trouble. Sometimes we get a bad bounce or whatever but not enough to outweigh the reward of being closer.